Fair enough, if you don't owe it, then don't pay it. You don't have to prove that you don't owe it; they have to prove you do. This ain't like the reverse onus Highway 407 (Toll) Act. Therefore, you don't have anything to worry about so I don't know why you are.

I gave you an infallible script in step no. 7; however, if you don't like that one, try this one.

[Ring, Ring, Ring]
Optingout (OO): Hello

collection agencys 'R Us [Collection Agency] (VRU): Is Optingout there?

OO: Speaking.

VRU: We've been calling you about this phone bill now for 2 weeks and my supervisor is getting sick and tired of waiting for you to pay up. I told you, he hates losers and deadbeats. I can't hold him back any longer from hauling your ass into court. Maybe, just maybe, if you can get the cash in to us today, I can get him to put a hold on the court action. Otherwise, we're gonna have your balls for bookends...... You got that?

OO: Really? Well, you good for nothing, bottom feeding jackals will have to sue me to get a penny, cause I don't owe this money. That is if you collection agencies can take the time from chasing down accident victims and guys who have just lost their jobs to do that. Speaking of jobs, do you think you will ever go out and get a real one and stop being a parasite, leech and general all-around boil on the ass of humanity?

VRU: I don't have to take this abuse - it's harassment. I do a valuable job for society.

OO: Listen, there's a train leaving town at 6:00 P.M. Why not do yourself a favor and be under it?

VRU: I'm not going to take this abuse; if you don't stop, I'm going to charge you with harassment.

OO: Man bites dog! Bow Wow!

VRU: Click!

Playwright's footnote: Notice, that at no time, did "OO" ever allow himself to enter into any discussion about the bill. He kept the emphasis on the collector's character (or lack thereof).

Sure the "can't afford to pay" is a stressor, but the bigger issue is that we really, honestly do not owe this money. I don't know where their information from, but I shouldn't have to be responsible for paying a debt I simply don't owe. I worry they will want "proof" I don't owe it, which as I said, is hard to come by.

Yes, I know I make things complicated. I just don't do well on the fly and like to essentially have a script. Thank you all for your help!

To Monty:

With respect to the issue of writing letters: I was referring to cases where people are being hassled by collection agencies over debts they can't or won't pay and are worried about getting sued at some point in the future either by the original creditor or by a 3'rd party who has purchased the debt.

In many situations, a significant amount of time has passed and pushed the debt well on towards its limitation perod. In such examples, there's no point in unnecessarily restarting the period all over again by providing written acknowledgement of it.

I wasn't referring to correcting errors on people's credit reports. That's a totally different matter. Of course, you may have to write letters then - and maybe lots of them if you are dealing with Equifax.

Ray

You are making this real complicated when it's real simple.

1. You can't afford to pay the money now or in the foreseeable future.

2. It's only 300 bucks so no one is going to sue you over it.

3. If it's not on your credit file by now, it surely will never be. So paying the money to a collection agency isn't going to impact your credit standing one iota.

4. Because it's for only 300 bucks, no collection agency is going to put a whole lot of work into collecting it for a cut of only 60 to 75 dollars.

5. If they call you again, DO NOT enter into any kind of conversation with them whatsoever.

6. Read Step (5) 10 times. (100 is better.)

7. If they call, tell them that they are a bunch of miserable collection agencies preying on human misfortune, to stop being a boil on the ass of humanity, to go and get a real job and to get lost. ANYTHING MORE IS COUNTERPRODUCTIVE. If they don't get lost, then apply the "Jackson 10 for 1 Rule."

PLEASE NOTE. Steps 5, 6, and 7 are universal rules for dealing with any collection agent over any debt for any amount. It should be use in all circumstances when dealing with a collector UNLESS you are ready, willing and able to settle an account with them on the spot and send them some money.

For that situation, other rules come into play.

Ray

Hmm, I see both points re: letters. Perhaps things have not progressed to the point where this is wise.

So, in trying to deal with this over the phone. Can we just keep repeating, "Your information is wrong, I do not owe this money" (or something to that effect, any suggestions welcome)and hang up? Do I have to explain myself? Do I legally have to prove that I don't owe (which will be difficult at this point). What do I have to supply them with, if anything?

The rep at NBTel couldn't even find husband in the database. She said old closed accts don't always show. Of course, maybe she just didn't have access to it. So, they couldn't even supply us with an account number.

Ugh, I could just cry. $300 may as well be $3000 to our household. We struggle just to heat our apartment, pay our bills (and we *do* pay our bills) and buy groceries.

Here's why I would write letters. Raymond is strongly disagreeing with writing letters.

There are a time and place to write letters.

YOU NEED TO GET ACTION

In the case where you're dealing with a creditor/collection agency and you're not getting any action. In this case you need to have the regulator step in a push things along.

Regulators won't get involved with a case unless it's in writing. Plain and simple.

This is especially the case when I was working on credit repair. I would call companies on behalf of the client. The credit company would flatly refuse to do anything about my request. At that point I was forced to write letters to the regulators. This was quite a common occurence. I found that the creditors wouldn't do things unless they were somehow motivated to.

The only way to motivate a creditor in many cases is by getting the regulatory body into play.

I would NEVER write letters to a creditor if I could solve the problem over the phone. I would never write letters to a creditor disputing something if I was asking for something outside of the contract.

My first step to resolving a problem is by phone.

Having said that, if I am dead set on getting something resolved with a credit company, I don't think I would be considering the statutes of limitations.

This is especially true if I had bogus information on a credit report.

These are reasons why people HAVE TO write letters.

First, they'll probably ask you what debt you are talking about, who it was with, what the account number was etc. Don't go there.

They're supposed to give you a reference number that goes with their file on you. You could ask for that file number over the phone (if they haven't already given it to you) and tell them not to contact you except in writing with regard to File Reference Number 12345678. In some provinces like Ontario, your request has to be by registered letter.

As well, they are obliged to send you a written notice a week before they contact you by phone, letting you know that your account has been assigned to them for collection. However, this rule is ignored more often than followed.

I would never do this because it is SO MUCH EASIER, efficient (and downright fun) to deal with them over the phone, but "chacun a son gout." {Yes, I know I'm missing all the accents because my keyboard doesn't have them and the blog software wouldn't accept them even if it did.)

The obvious problem with sending in a letter like that is, if they send you a letter back in response, what are you going to do then? The most you can retort is that you don't know anything about the account....never heard of it..... never seen it ....... don't know who the creditor is etc, etc.

But that'll be a waste of time and 8 bucks in registered postage fees. The collection agency can then say, that you refused to communicate in any reasonable fashion with them and start phoning you back to harass you. More likely, they'll ignore your registered missive in the first place and keep on calling you. After all, it's hard to harass anyone or 'break em down" by stuffing up their mailbox.

Furthermore, if you do try to communicate in any meaningful fashion with them, then you'll have, at some point, to simply refuse to pay the account, Even if you refuse to acknowledge ownership of the debt, the refusal to pay could very possibly be taken by a court as an acknowledgement.

That's because the wording of most provincial limitation acts is such that they stipulate an acknowledgement may be vaiid, even if accompanied by a "refusal to pay." Tossing in the fact that you never owned the account might be construed by a court as an extraneous detail (and hence ignored) for those cases in which it is obvious that you did. Small Claim Court judges don't have a lot of patience when people try to pull nonsense. It will almost always backfire to the detriment of the defendant.

I don't know if any of this will happen and neither does anyone else; but why start a potential quagmire with all this documentation going back and forth? If you do what Monty and Advocate are pushing: asking to see copies of contracts and assignments of rights, you'll almost certainly be renewing the SOL every time. The time to do that sort of thing is if, and when, court action has already been filed. Then you've got nothing to lose.

Ray

I hate confrontation and I despise talking on the phone. I feel put on the spot.

So, I could write something along the lines of, I do not owe you or the company named any debt. If you insist on communicating with me further, all communication must be sent via mail.

Would that suffice and not make things worse?

Yes, that and the "Jackson Method" - (patent pending). You can send them a registered letter telling them, not to contact you except by mail but you have to be careful what you write.

But why miss out on all the fun of having them call?

Ray

My son-in-law was also contacted by this company yesterday, so I've been researching the subject.

First of all, do NOT acknowledge the debt in any way, but especially in writing. It is up to them to prove the debt before they can take any legal action whatsoever. It is not up to you to help them by searching your prior financial records or anything else.

I believe that you can insist on being contacted only via mail, but perhaps someone else can confirm it.

They will use pressure tactics, bullying and harassment to up your stress level to the point where you cave in and pay them. Don't let them get away with it.

Simply continue telling them that you do NOT owe them or anyone else this money. If they think otherwise, the onus is on them to prove it.