Collection Agencies - MJR Collections Calling for CIBC Overdraft - Canada

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RE: MJR Collections Calling for CIBC Overdraft

Postby HonestAbe » Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:14:07 AM

There's only one thing you need to do at this point: Call them and demand the assignment letter. Anything else is working backwards.

In fact, the whole file on your account under the PIPEDA Privacy Act is available right now. All you have to do is contact their compliance officer and they will send it to you within 30 days upon receipt of a written request. Sometimes they do it by telephone request though they are not required to.

MJR is pretty good compared to others as far as obeying the law. A lot of agencies like TCR, Global, TCH Alliance One and Pomer & Boccia will stonewall you, but MJR has a special web page dedicated to PIPEDA compliance.

http://mjrcollections.com/company_legal.shtml

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RE: MJR Collections Calling for CIBC Overdraft

Postby CowgirlCaz » Sat Jan 11, 2014 09:22:25 AM

lol Ottawa thanks but ...

morally vs realistically = two different things lol

Stupid MJR called this morning but when I answered I got put on hold and then transferred to a woman's voicemail. They work so backwards; I thought they were the ones calling me? And I have to leave them a message? LOL!

Abe - told you I'm bad with numbers like that. I'm mathematically challenged lol. Yes like you say I have to try and stop thinking/worrying about this b.s. They haven't called me in all these years ... just started the past week or two at the absolute most. I'm just beating myself down for no reason.
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RE: MJR Collections Calling for CIBC Overdraft

Postby Ottawa_Chap » Sat Jan 11, 2014 05:31:04 AM


"Morally yes I would love to pay what I owe:" ... Positive energy - That's the spirit!!

Best of luck CowGirl.
Infuriating one C/A at a time..
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RE: MJR Collections Calling for CIBC Overdraft

Postby HonestAbe » Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:56:45 AM

If a judgment was obtained after one year on the original $1500 default amount, aside from costs, it would be $1500 x (1 + 23.3%) = $1849.50. As soon as the case is filed, the effective interest rate actually changes slightly because it goes from daily compounding to simple (straight line) of 21% for both pre and post judgment rates.

With daily compounding it was effectively 23.3%, but now it's 21% for as long as the debt is outstanding UNLESS the judge orders "no interest while not in default of the payment order" - something which is quite common.

But assuming that doesn't happen, and you waited another 9 miserable years before you paid it all off, the amount owed would be $1849.50 x 21% x 9 years + $1849.56 = $5345.12.

Of course, if you made installment payments, the amounts would have to be recalculated each time.

But try and do something more productive with your time than worrying about this. Perhaps reruns of the Beverly Hillbillies, with Jed and all his kin.
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RE: MJR Collections Calling for CIBC Overdraft

Postby CowgirlCaz » Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:04:06 AM

*chokes on coffee*
"Insert preferred curse word here"
Wow huge difference in totals. I came up with $4650 using your example calculation if went to judgment within first year but paid 10 years later (which it didn't obviously go that way but I think you're getting the sense of my analytical mind).
Told you I'm horrible with math. If mine was right hell I think I'd prefer to go to court then LOL!
No there's no way I'd be able to pay that amount though. I don't even make that in a year. Morally yes I would love to pay what I owe: $1500 but not $12k - do indeed forget the interest wow! And yes I know that last phrase of theirs particularly stood out for me too. Such lovely people - so up-front too ....
Yes this debt should be stats barred like you say - at this point it doesn't matter if it fell in the 2 yr SOL or the old 6 yr SOL like we talked about earlier; either way both SOL's are long gone. TD gave me overdraft of 500 in either 2009 or 2010 - they wouldn't have done so if they saw anything on my report lol.
Speaking of which that will be my next step - I think even before conversing with MJR. Thanks so much for this guidance so far. It does give me some peace of mind ... not all ... but some lol ;)
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RE: MJR Collections Calling for CIBC Overdraft

Postby HonestAbe » Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:24:17 PM

"Interest rates set by CIBC will apply both before and after CIBC Overdraft Protection Service is terminated, and before and after judgment is obtained against you."

Real pleasant, aren't they!

Yes, the rate is the same but it would change from compound to simple interest as soon as they filed.

If it stayed at compound interest, $1500 would be $12,241.86 after 10 years.

But none of this is applicable to your situation since the debt is surely stats barred. If you want to settle with them for moral reasons, if and when you are able to do so, forget the interest and offer them maybe 25% or 30% of the original $1200. However, banks, unlike private lenders, are more fuddy-duddy about settling for lower percentages. Some of them will turn down anything less than 50% or even 80% because of the precedent it will set for other settlements.
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RE: MJR Collections Calling for CIBC Overdraft

Postby HonestAbe » Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:29:19 PM

Yes, that's right. Some cards are compounded monthly, like HBC, but generally most cards and overdraft accounts (as is the case with the blogger) are compounded daily. I was trying to give her a sense of how much the annual interest would amount to since daily rates wouldn't be meaningful for most.
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RE: MJR Collections Calling for CIBC Overdraft

Postby CowgirlCaz » Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:16:30 PM

This is what CIBC states on their site for terms of their overdraft. This hasn't changed in the past 10 years.

"CIBC’s interest rate is currently 21% per year and may vary from time to time. Interest will be calculated and debited monthly to your account based on the final daily indebtedness in the account throughout the calendar month. Interest rate set by CIBC will apply both before and after CIBC Overdraft Protection Service is terminated, and before and after judgment is obtained against you."

Considering there was no activity in that CIBC account since Jan. 2004 - just the $1500 overdraft - no money was put in to fluctuate the balance. According to what I calculated using Abe's formula it was something like $4600 after 10 years (which I used Abe's hypothesis of a judgment which we know most likely didn't even occur - but that's ok I like to cover all bases).

And yes Abe ... I totally agree with you in all you said about that poor woman's case. I was thinking all the exact same things. That lawyer went out of his way to ensure that the case went HIS way. And lol great imagery of Jurassic Park but yes oh so appropriate. It put a smile on my face ;)

And no, I'm trying not to worry too much because I too believe nothing's been done. If something had been done I wouldn't be getting those calls. I just like to learn/educate myself, and be prepared well in advance ... for anything lol. So yes I am a worry wart - but a meticulous planning worry wart LOL!
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RE: MJR Collections Calling for CIBC Overdraft

Postby macie43 » Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:56:56 PM

Expressing 21% as a daily interest rate is 21%/365 days = .0575342466% per day or .000575342466 because to convert from % to a decimal fraction you must divide by 100. (Sorry for all the decimals but you really need them for accuracy when you're compounding something 365 times.)

There maybe a difference in the definitions as it depends on how often they say the rate is compounded. If it 21% compounded monthly that equates to a daily rate of ((1+(0.21/12))^(1/(365/12))-1)*100 = 0.05705289%
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RE: MJR Collections Calling for CIBC Overdraft

Postby HonestAbe » Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:31:34 PM

Yes, it's too bad about her. It wasn't so much RBC as her lawyers egging RBC on so that they could milk everything out of the case by adding on their outrageous legal fees. After all, she offered them very reasonable and full repayment terms. RBC would have gotten all of their money back under her proposal, but the lawyers would have missed out on the huge legal fees coming from Superior Court trial and then later on, the seizure of her home. Real vultures.

Remember that scene in Jurassic Park when the T-Rex found the pernicious lawyer sitting on the toilet seat - appropriate imagery by the way, because the lawyer was full of ****. The whole audience in the movie theater cheered as the T-Rex gobbled him up.

I wouldn't worry about what you might owe CIBC, as the chances they've filed a suit is about the same as Rob Ford getting a job at the Toronto Star.

Interest rates are usually quoted at what's called their nominal [annual] value. For example, 21% doesn't mean that you will pay $121 at the end of the year if your overdraft is $100 on Jan. 1. Because the balance on most accounts changes frequently, computing and compounding interest on a daily basis is more accurate and allows greater flexibility.

Expressing 21% as a daily interest rate is 21%/365 days = .0575342466% per day or .000575342466 because to convert from % to a decimal fraction you must divide by 100. (Sorry for all the decimals but you really need them for accuracy when you're compounding something 365 times.)

For a $1 balance, at the end of the first day you would owe $1.000575342466.

At the end of the 2nd day you would owe ($1.000575342466) x ($1.000575342466) = $1.001151016

Doing this 365 times (on a financial calculator) at the end of 1 year, you would owe $1.233603565 or $1.233, rounded.

So the 21% nominal annual rate that CIBC quotes is effectively 23.3% when the compounding is done daily.

To use your example: A balance of $410 in your overdraft account for a full month would result in a balance of $417.14 at the end of the month, implying the interest would amount to $7.14, not $3.14. You must have been in overdraft less than 2 weeks out of the 30 days assuming the amount didn't change during that month. In any event, a $500 overdraft will cost you $116.80 in interest for a full year. No wonder the banks love them.

Another point: When legal action is filed on a account, the interest from that day on CHANGES to simple from compounding.

Using the same example: If CIBC filed an action on Feb.1 2005, and the outstanding balance on that date with compound interest was $1500, then if they got a judgment and you paid 5 years later on Feb. 1, 2010, the amount of prejudgment and post judgment interest would be 5 years x 21% x $1500 = $1575 for a total amount owing of $3075. Note that the court interest rate is the prevailing rate of the credit agreement at the time it was written off, NOT the statutory 3% default rate.
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