Various bloggers such as "McNulty" and "some guy" brought up interesting issues regarding Total Credit Rcovery and Deanna Natale's 5 Star Mortgage which operates from within it. But then they just left them hanging in the air, so to speak. Does anyone have any further information? If they feel unconfortable about publicly posting it, perhaps they could email me privately @ glendixon@sympatico.ca.

Thanks

Hi Glen,

The only limitation is a self imposed limitation!
All the money in the world is available to you, all you have to do is earn it. You give 'em all you got and they'll give you all you want.

I agree with you about people limiting themselves. When you look at it, the rich get richer, because they have a wealthy mindset. They concentrate on making money. They focus on making money.

This is not the case with most people unfortunately. Making money is usually extremely difficult and alot of work at the beginning. This is a barrier to entry to most of the population.

It's alright that not everybody are entrepreneurs. A stable work environment needs stable people who like to do the day to day routine.

The discrepancy comes when credit is handed out to non-financially minded people. These people don't focus on the pros and cons of using credit for consumer purchases. They think it's the normal thing to do.

People who study and focus on money and how to make it are usually very cautious about using credit for anything other than making money. Yes, there are business people who have used credit foolishly and declared bankruptcy. Business people who handle money all day long are usually more aware of the problems credit can cause.

With regards to self imposed limitations. If the average population spent a few days a year concentrating and focussing on how to earn more money, they probably would do so. Making more money usually means you have to use credit less to purchase your consumer items. Just my thoughts.

To be diplomatic I wrote a post on my Financial Maturity Blog..

My post is about how people are in such a complex credit and financial society. Most people, even lawyers NEVER read their financial agreements, including credit cards, mutual funds, mortgages, life insurance etc.

It's natural for people to complain against the all powerful creditors. The credit system in Canada is heavily weighted in favor of the creditors.

I like complainer hater's comments about how he took a stand and didn't give up. He stayed the course and paid back his debts. In my opinion, that is the honorable thing to do.

I've experienced the highs and lows of business myself and can fully empathize with the pain and struggle of catching up on bills etc, especially when the chips are down.

This site can talk about moral philosophy. Sometimes that's the underlying motivation behind what people do. If you get yourself into a contract, you're morally obligated to pay it back.

If you don't feel that you can pay back a debt, don't get into it in the first place. You're only going to cause yourself headaches.

In fact, a close friend who was a wealthy businessman many years ago used to make comments similar to yours and quote the above motivational speaker. Today, this man lives in a tiny appartment for $500 a month, sick and disabled for many years through a medical diagnosis screwup, with collection agents hounding him.

With regards to your friend who was wealthy...Sometimes money is viscious.. You can get tied up into the system of keeping up with the Jones and chasing the consumeristic Canadian dream. Your value system gets out of whack. Money becomes the god. As a person creates wealth they soon learn that money by itself is very hollow.

BOTTOM LINE:
I believe it's very important for a society's character to pay what they owe and what they agreed to. (This is aside from my opinions about collection agencies etc.) Credit has become too easy for people to get and because of that they don't understand the implications. I wrote this article a while back about financial maturity

Again, Glen & complainer hater, thanks for your input.

The only limitation is a self imposed limitation!
All the money in the world is available to you, all you have to do is earn it.
You give 'em all you got and they'll give you all you want.
Now, there are certain people who don't agree with this philosophy and they become very good at criticizing, complaining and whining - but accomplish anything forget it! No one ever erected a statue to a critic.

Bob Proctor [motivational speaker]

I'm rather loathe to digress into moral philosophy as that's not the purpose of this web site and the demographic using it would not be very receptive to it anyway. But, surely, neither is its purpose to tell people using it that they're a bunch of whining, lazy losers (even if in some cases that might be a valid criticism). On the contrary, it seems that one of the site's main purposes is to provide a forum for complaining about (usually nasty) treatment from creditors and collection agents and getting constructive help to deal with them.

The majority of its participants are probably not millionaires. They have gotten themselves into trouble and can't afford the expensive legal help to get out of it. In some cases, users' problems may be caused by their own lack maturity or responsibility. However, most of those who get into trouble are responsible types who have always paid their bills on time but serious unforeseen issues occur in life, which in some cases, they are not able to work themselves out of.

It appeals to our sense of pride to think of ourselves as rugged individuals who are "Masters of The Universe", which I guess was the whole point of Tom Wolfe's novel, "Bonfire of the Vanities." With some of these situations, the people involved may never be fully be able to fully extricate themselves. That's the whole point of ('er um, sorry to use this word) charity. They may be too old. They may not be well enough to work at any gainful employment in whatever time is left to them so that bankruptcy is the only option. Their health insurance plan and its lawyers reneged on them when they became disabled. You can do a lot of things if you have your health but not everyone has their health. I know of several such cases. In fact, a close friend who was a wealthy businessman many years ago used to make comments similar to yours and quote the above motivational speaker. Today, this man lives in a tiny appartment for $500 a month, sick and disabled for many years through a medical diagnosis screwup, with collection agents hounding him. He's creative and has started a couple of small businesses but his health and energy are quite limited and thus also is the upside of his earning power.

Many who are indigent are so, it is true, because "they just wouldn't pull up their socks." Nonetheless, for many of the diligent, the dynamics of our modern economy increasingly exacerbates this situation by polarizing the distribuion of wealth. The rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer. Sounds trite, but it's very true. And there will always be more poor than rich. I call it the "Walmartization" of the economy. The Toronto Star ran a feature article last week called "The Disappearing Middle Class." It outlined how the real earning power of anyone near the median is steadily being eroded - a consequence of more and more people demanding limited resources such as real estate. Even among the employed, the percentage of jobs that pay survival wages is ever increasing. Consequently, as Linda Leatherdale, business editor of the Toronto Sun points out, we have become a nation whose level of personal debt has reached dangerous levels. It doesn't all go on pizza, beer and bingo. Many in survival jobs barely survive. Food bank usage has become epidemic and, no, they're not all lazy whining losers. That's what happens as one's financial situation becomes precarious - it doesn't take much to send you over the edge and for the collection agencies (to use Ms. Leatherdale's term) to start hovering and picking at the carcass.

My apologies for this aside. I dunno what to say to alleviate your nausea at all the disgusting whiners that sicken you. Maybe take some advil for the headache and gravol for the stomach. Oh, by the way, if you're on your feet now and everything's going okay financially, why waste your time and ruin your digestion reading all this uselass moaning and groaning when it could be better spent in making your business(es) fly? Just wondering.

Geez.. what a bunch of blabbering whiners. I started to read the posts on this site and started to gag.

I am a self employed individual who has created several businesses. I have had worse times financially than most people in this forum. I have ALWAYS worked hard and dug myself out of my financial problems.

I have learned that in everybody's life, money is plentiful at some points and scarce at others. At one point, I owed over $250,000 after my business crashed. My income dropped 95% in one year. It wasn't that I was doing any thing wrong, my business crashes because of external market conditions.

I had to retrain myself and then repaid all of my debts back. I agreed to them. I paid them. That's all there is to it.

Many people who get into a bad circumstance financially get depressed, and start to think that their life is over. NO IT'S NOT OVER... You just have to boot strap it and start to add value to the market place. This may mean retraining and a huge learning curve.

There is tons of money in the market place. Way more than enough to pay back my $250,000 in debt that I owed. I realized that I just need to get back on the horse and start to add even more value to my new clients. It was extremely painful and exhausting for a few years but I did it.

I'm sorry If I don't have patience for whiners. I know that paying back your bills can be done, even if it is exhausting and painful. That's what builds character in the long run and builds a strong economy and society.

I'll admit that I deal with credit with a little more wisdom these days, however, credit is a part of business and I need it to live. I'm a little older and wiser for the experience. Also, because I didn't declare bankruptcy, my suppliers know my character and that they can trust me in future dealings. It took me longer than they would have wanted to pay them back, however I did pay them back.

Best wishes and stop complaining... :)

Hi Everyone:

Thought All would like to hear this: A friend helping me get info on TCR took a look at the Collections Act of Ontario there are a few do' and don'ts they must follow such as they may not be directly or indirectly involved with the lending of money. Apparently my friend dug a little deeper found out that TCR may have a company that deals with mortgages this friend however is still trying to get confirmation on this..we will see what becomes of this.

I am going to go look at the Ontario Mortgage Brokers license site and take a look around see what comes of this.

Oh I forgot to mention also if they do have a company also in their building working in the money lending business they must have a signage. But I'm still doing some checking on all this but thought I would let you all know what I was doing..talk to you all soon.

take care

Judy

Hi Everyone:

Thought All would like to hear this: A friend helping me get info on TCR took a look at the Collections Act of Ontario there are a few do' and don'ts they must follow such as they may not be directly or indirectly involved with the lending of money. Apparently my friend dug a little deeper found out that TCR may have a company that deals with mortgages this friend however is still trying to get confirmation on this..we will see what becomes of this.

I am going to go look at the Ontario Mortgage Brokers license site and take a look around see what comes of this.

Oh I forgot to mention also if they do have a company also in their building working in the money lending business they must have a signage. But I'm still doing some checking on all this but thought I would let you all know what I was doing..talk to you all soon.

take care

Judy

Hey Folks,
This is a wonderful post, but it's getting pretty long.

Can we continue this great discussion on a new post?!!
That would be great.

Thanks,

Monty Loree

Hi Judy; Marilyn and I were talking earlier today and we felt that it seemed that you appeared to be a lot calmer an d more sure of yourself than when you first started contacting this page. We hope that it is because the advice you have been receiving has been positive and has proven to be effective in reducing the stress put upon you by these fools at 'TCR'.
We had the investigator finalize his investigation of them and we realized that he had accomplisheed some good, we also felt that there was many things that were apparent to us tyhat could have been done , especially when in one of his piecesof correspondence he referred to onr of the men in the Edmonton Office as a friend. That does not give me a big boost in confidence in his effort to get to the bottom of the problem. We are not going to let it rest though. We are getting in touch with the Ministry (Federal) responsible for these people and get them checking on them. Not too sure of the proper Ministry as it appears they have changed some ministry titles.We will keep you updated. I have a strange feeling that although TCR told our investigator that they had fired the gal calling us She Called herself "Giulia (julia) Spezzico" . She was not licensed and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it turned out that she was the same one calling you and then getting off the line with "another call" excuse too save her skin.
Will get back to you

Neil M.

Hi Judy,
Consumer Protection in your province has a list of all registered Collection agents and agencies .

If the agent that is calling doesn't give you her agents number, get his/her name. Then call consumer protection to verify that that person works at that collection agency.

If that person isn't licensed at consumer protection, then you can lodge a complaint .

This keeps the agent and agency honest.