Yes, the T-Rex of Debt" has been on quite a feeding frenzy chasing down debtors. To make sure you don't end up on her menu, track down what exactly has happened to your student loan by making a few phone calls. Do that before doing court searches; otherwise, it's putting the cart before the horse.

And no, no lender, including the Canada Student Loans Center, is going to voluntarily tell you your loan is stats barred - they want you to pay it - so you have to determine if it is based on the dates involved.

That's why, when you call them, tell them you want to get the matter resolved. That's the truth, you really do; no one should live in a constant eroding state of fear.

A while back, somewhere in my posts, I included a Ontario Government working paper on their surprising discussion about selling some of the delinquent loans off to private debt buyers. I never followed up on it to see what transpired. Easy enough to find out though.

Ray

Wow, that thread is loooong. I went to the start and read about 10 pages. This lady sounds like quite a piece of work. I'm hoping that she doesn't get involved really, to tell you the truth.

So do you think I'm best starting by contacting CIBC and then OSAP and seeing what exactly my loans consisted of and what actions had been taken on my loans?

Also, do you know how I can check if my loans are stats barred? Is there somewhere that it is recorded?

No, your credit reports won't have details about your student loans; in fact, they may not even be on there.

Start by checking with the clerk of the courts at Kitchener Waterloo, if that's where you took out the loan originally. Check with both the Small Claims Court and the higher Civil Division of the Ontario Court of Justice. They hear applications for amounts over $10,000. They're all located in the same building in Kitchener - Waterloo on 20 Weber Street East, near where I used to live. The general phone number is 1 519 741-3270. As well, the writ enforcement office is also located in the same building but it costs about 12 bucks to do a search under your name.

But before you (or a friend) does any of this, check with the OSAP loan office and they can probably give you a history of what actions have been taken on your student loan. I'm not too sure if they'll want your current address though. Just give them your parents' if they do.

As for Deanna Natale, just go to:

http://www.canadian-money-advisor.ca/threadview/457.html

and start at the beginning (highest number page, as they are arranged in reverse chronological order) and read until you can't take it anymore.

Ray

Ray, I've been reading back on many topics and you're hilarious! And the great thing is that you're also very helpful and informative. I will certainly appreciate a more detailed response whenever you have time.

"I have a big exam tomorrow so I will respond after. First though, you need to determine the details of how your loan was apportioned and when. CIBC should be able to dig up that info for you if you don't have the original documentation.

You need to very careful with Global. They've also got Deanna Natale working for them as their lawyer, although I don't know if your case is eligible for her services yet. Things can get downright sneaky. Even though you British were able to fend off the entire Nazi onslaught in WWII, I'm not sure you'll be so effective if Deanna Natale et al decide to attack.

Ray"

I'm Canadian, I just live in England now ;-)

Who is this Deanna Natale and what is it about her that makes her particularily bad?

Can I find from my credit report what the breakdown of my loans are? Otherwise, would I just phone up CIBC and say "Hi, my name is XXXX can you tell me what my student loan breakdown is?" Seems like that would be an interesting call....

Thanks again Raymond!

Slimster

I have a big exam tomorrow so I will respond after. First though, you need to determine the details of how your loan was apportioned and when. CIBC should be able to dig up that info for you if you don't have the original documentation.

You need to very careful with Global. They've also got Deanna Natale working for them as their lawyer, although I don't know if your case is eligible for her services yet. Things can get downright sneaky. Even though you British were able to fend off the entire Nazi onslaught in WWII, I'm not sure you'll be so effective if Deanna Natale et al decide to attack.

Ray

First off, thank you very much Raymond for your very detailed and lengthy response. I appreciate it and all the information contained within.

"The Federal portion of Canada Student Loans has a limitation period of 6 years for collectability; however, the Ontario portion of a student loan has not had any limitation period associated with it since Jan.1, 2004.

To repeat: there is now no limitation period for court action on any Ontario Student Loan that went into default after Jan.1, 1998 [eg. 6 years prior to Jan.1, 2004 which was the official inauguration date of the Ontario Limitations Act of 2002.] It's there 'til the day you die OR declare bankruptcy."

--Ok, so my CSL should be stats barred now. And it must be the OSL that they are trying to collect. That's bad news that there is no SOL on the OSL. It would have went into default after Jan 1, 1998 anyway, so the payment in 2002 doesn't really matter it seems.

"Student loans, both federal and provincial, unlike general unsecured consumer debts, are capable of being revived even AFTER they become stats barred by making a payment or giving written acknowledgment. So be careful of what you write to Global and never give them any financial information such as those financial information forms they are trying to catch unwary people with. All they'll do is use it to try and seize your assets and restart the limitation period of any federal portion of a student loan you might have. Sticking with the telephone is best when communicating with these people."

--Hmmm, I'm not very happy with telephone communication, since they seem like they will be calling relentlessly. Is there anything I can do about that? What exactly constitutes 'written acknowledgement'? Can I write to them and say something like "I am unaware of what you are referencing, but I would like any communication for yourselves to be in written format from now on. Phone calls are unacceptable". Would just sending them a letter like that mean 'written acknowledgement' had been given?

"However, I have no idea what portions (if any) your student loan is divided into, but if it contains a federal portion only, it's coming up for stats barring in 2008. Maybe that's why Global is contacting you. They want you to restart the clock. If it's a provincial loan, then you revived it forever with that payment in 2002."

--I think both loans would have been in default before the end of 2002. I'm fairly certain that the payment was actually more likely to have been in 2001. I know for certain that my loan was part CSL and part OSL. It seems from the info you have given me that the CSL part is stats barred now, but the OSL part will never be :-(

"You've got to be careful. Global can't sue your parents for the loan but they could have or might still get a default judgement against you for the loan without you're being in the country. They could then take a out a (Form 21) writ of seizure against any propertry that you might come to own in Canada. As well, should your parents die and leave you a portion of their estate, you can be sure the collection agencies at Global Credit are carefully monitoring your financial situation letting the interest build up and waiting for an opportune time. Should you come into any property, they may well be ready to strike. They've got Deanna Natale working for them. I'm surprised her office hasn't called your parents by now."

--Oh, they have contacted my parents already, yes. What are the chances of them taking some kind of settlement from me? If I offered a lump sum payment of 20% for a full and final settlement of the debt, is that something that these places would accept?

"New civil judgment reciprocity agreements are constantly coming into force between countries. See Section 74.3 of the Ministry of Justice, "Practice and Rules Directions." Or better still, give them a call at the link above and see if Canadian judgments and writs of execution can't be transferred to where you live for enforcement.

Also it's a good idea to check the court jurisdictions where you took out the loan to see if any default judgments have been filed against your name. Perhaps your parents can do that for you."

Ray"

--How exactly we I go about checking for a default judgment? Do you call the courts? Can you check online? My loan is in Ontario, specifically the KW area. How many courts would I need to check?

Thanks again for your thoughts and information Raymond. Fantastic, really.

Sure, property and casualty insurance companies conduct searches all the time to see if their (liability insurance) clients have had any notice of actions or statements of claim filed against their insureds. That way they can prepare a defence for their client against any possible judgments, default or otherwise.

You have to check all the court jurisdictions where a claim might have been filed. Sometimes plaintiffs may succeed in getting applications moved to the jurisdiction where they now reside. Contrary to what Jaimiedude thinks, the case isn't always held where the original loan agreement was signed. You might have to do a search with various locations of the Ontario Court of Justice as well as with Small Claims court clerks.

One thing for sure, these collectors can get pretty sneaky. They tell the court that the statement was delivered to the last known address or that the plaintiff has "disappeared." Then the ball is often in the defendant's court to make a motion and present sufficient defence evidence to overturn the default judgment. They do that for any type of loan if they can get away with it. Makes things real easy for them if the defendant's not around to defend himself.

Ray

"Also it's a good idea to check the court jurisdictions where you took out the loan to see if any default judgments have been filed against your name. Perhaps your parents can do that for you"

Ray, could you please shed some on how one would go about uncovering any potential judgments; also, would the research one undertakes during that process be later detectible by a creditor/collector?

I wasn't aware that a judgement could be awarded without the defendant being served with a notice to appear in court? If I've misunderstood your comment, please feel free to clairify. I'm also curious to know if this applies to all creditors, or just the ones collecting on student debts?

TIA.

Ottawa_Chap

http://www.justice.gov.uk/contactus.htm

The Federal portion of Canada Student Loans has a limitation period of 6 years for collectability; however, the Ontario portion of a student loan has not had any limitation period associated with it since Jan.1, 2004.

The reason was that the Ontario Limitations Act of 2002 was implemented at that date. Previously, there was a 6 year limitation period for action on Ontario Student Loans, but the government wanted that loophole closed.

The idea was that any Ontario Student loan that had been in default for at least 6 full years should have it's stats barred status grandfathered and thus not be able to be revived. Howvever, those loans which went into default or were revived through acknowledgment since that date should not enjoy that privilege. To repeat: there is now no limitation period for court action on any Ontario Student Loan that went into default after Jan.1, 1998 [eg. 6 years prior to Jan.1, 2004 which was the official inauguration date of the Ontario Limitations Act of 2002.] It's there 'til the day you die OR declare bankruptcy. And to be eligible to be included in bankruptcy, it must have been at least 10 full years since the person finished school.

Mike Harris, then Premier of Ontario adopted the Hell's Angels' motto: "God Forgives - We don't."

Student loans, both federal and provincial, unlike general unsecured consumer debts, are capable of being revived even AFTER they become stats barred by making a payment or giving written acknowledgment. So be careful of what you write to Global and never give them any financial information such as those financial information forms they are trying to catch unwary people with. All they'll do is use it to try and seize your assets and restart the limitation period of any federal portion of a student loan you might have. Sticking with the telephone is best when communicating with these people.

However, I have no idea what portions (if any) your student loan is divided into, but if it contains a federal portion only, it's coming up for stats barring in 2008. Maybe that's why Global is contacting you. They want you to restart the clock. If it's a provincial loan, then you revived it forever with that payment in 2002.

You've got to be careful. Global can't sue your parents for the loan but they could have or might still get a default judgement against you for the loan without you're being in the country. They could then take a out a (Form 21) writ of seizure against any propertry that you might come to own in Canada. As well, should your parents die and leave you a portion of their estate, you can be sure the collection agencies at Global Credit are carefully monitoring your financial situation letting the interest build up and waiting for an opportune time. Should you come into any property, they may well be ready to strike. They've got Deanna Natale working for them. I'm surprised her office hasn't called your parents by now.

New civil judgment reciprocity agreements are constantly coming into force between countries. See Section 74.3 of the Ministry of Justice, "Practice and Rules Directions." Or better still, give them a call at the link above and see if Canadian judgments and writs of execution can't be transferred to where you live for enforcement.

Also it's a good idea to check the court jurisdictions where you took out the loan to see if any default judgments have been filed against your name. Perhaps your parents can do that for you.

Ray

Hello, this is my first post here, I hope it's in the right place.

I am living in the UK and have an outstanding student loan with CIBC. I have had no contact with them since approximately 2002 when I paid a small amount towards my loan.

I moved to the UK about 3.5 years ago. Recently Global Credit started hounding my parents (no one had called them for about 2 years, previously my father told them they did not have a contact for me and that they could no longer call him about it, since it wasn't his debt. I don't know what collection agency that was calling). My mother gave in and gave them my number in the UK. Now they are calling here and hounding, and since we are 5 hours ahead, they have been calling as late as 10:30pm.

Can someone please help me with a few questions?

What exactly does the 'stats barred' mean? Since they have now spoken to me (though I did nothing but ask for a number to call them back, they wouldn't give me one, so eventually I hung up on them), has the stats barred been reset?

If I write to them and ask for no more phone calls, that everything be done in writing, would that stop them being able to call? Also, does writing to them "acknowledge" the debt again?

What would be your general advice in this case?

Thanks for any help!