There is so much information out there in cyberspace. You do not have to look very hard for anyone. Credit reports, social web sites, emails, cell phone ext messages, friend of a friend, pictures......this all provides information. I work as a skip tracer, and I never ever have to make a phone call. It is always a matter of time.Debtors have to apply for rent, credit, a car, buy and finance anything. Nothing is truly safe anymore. There are all kinds of ways to access stuff legally. It is just a matter of time. Judgments last forever......

One of the genuine tough guy ex-wrestlers in the WWE, Brock Lesnar tapped out after only 90 seconds on Saturday night in what was really the marquee fight in UFC81. Defeated by veteran Frank Mir, coming off a motorcycle accident, the crestfallen, Lesnar, when asked after the fight what he was going to do now with his life, cheerlessly moaned. "I guess I can always become a collector. That way, I won't actually have face anyone who''ll fight back."

Meanwhile, the jubilant Mir, when asked for his reaction, vociferously exclaimed, "Bring on Deanna Natale!!"

Careful Frank, not even Fedor will be able to save your butt on that one.

Ray

I could be totally wrong on this subject...

However, this was type of question that I faced when I first started to do credit repair... When I first started my credit repair research, I usually had to learn everything the hard way... And, there weren't any resources like this site to help me out.

I found that there were many items that were undefined as nobody knew to complain about them. This is one of those cases in my opinion.

I will contact Privacy Commission about skip tracing and get their official ruling...

jamiedude00,

Agencies wouldn't put them selves in hot water to be fined over ministry complaints about this.

It's the same logic that credit bureaus have millions of errors on credit reports but don't fix them all unless they're forced to.

First we need an official ruling on skip tracing in Canada, and then we need to educate people about that.

Monty, as a collector my self, never really thought about this until I read your thread here, and looked up on this my self. And according to the new collection rules set out in Ontario;

A collection agency is an organization hired by a business to collect money that is owed. Some businesses use collection agencies when customers’ accounts are overdue. Ontario regulates collection agencies through the Collection Agencies Act and its regulations. The act’s regulations forbid collection agencies from:

Contacting a consumer’s spouse, a member of the consumer’s family or household, or a relative, neighbour or acquaintance except to obtain the consumer’s address and telephone number unless the person contacted has guaranteed the debt or the consumer has given permission for the person to be contacted.

With that in print, as confusing as it might be to some, it is clear that skip tracing is a legit form of finding people. Agencies wouldn't put them selves in hot water to be fined over ministry complaints about this.

Hmmm....

Here's how this would go...

You call one of my relatives looking for my information... they give it to you.
You then contact me.. I ask how you got my new information, without my permission...

I then complain to the Privacy Commission's office who then asks you and your company, "did Monty give you permission to collect his new information?"

You reply "NO", we got Monty's private information from a third party.

I have a valid complaint.

The premise here, as well, is this: I have no contract with a collection agency, or the collection agent. I have no reason to deal with them. There is no law that says I must deal with a collection agent. Thus, there is NO reason why I need to deal with a collection agent.

And so on, and so on...

yes and those are right, i agree with all that and know it very well but what you're not understanding here is that there is NO information given to anyone when a phone number is called simply asking for an individual. none whatsoever.

when the collector called you, did they tell you why they were calling for the person they were looking for? if they did, then they broke the law. if not, then they didn't break any law.

they're not required to tell you who they are either. it's simply a wrong number. not required to tell the name of the company, or our last names either although most do anyways.

skip tracing is trying to find a person. it's the same thing as me trying to find an old friend or lost loved one. there's no difference and it is completely legal. you're trying to see something that isn't there.

Star_1964,

Below is text directly from PIPEDA:
This is what I'm referring to.
You can find PIPEDA at:
http://www.privcom.gc.ca

I added the FULL PIPEDA Act to the photo album
/album/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=0

Feel free to down load it and have a look!

The Federal Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act (Principle 4.3.1) states the following:

4.3.1
Consent is required for the collection of personal information and the subsequent use or disclosure of this information. Typically, an organization will seek consent for the use or disclosure of the information at the time of collection. In certain circumstances, consent with respect to use or disclosure may be sought after the information has been collected but before use(for example, when an organization wants to use information for a purpose not previously identified.)

4.3.2
The principle requires "knowledge and consent". Organizations shall make a reasonable effort to ensure that the individual is advised of the purposes for which the information will be used. To make the consent meaningful, the purposes must be stated in such a manner that the individual can reasonably understand how the information will be used or disclosed.

4.9 Principle 9
Upon request, an individual shall be informed of the existence, use and disclosure of his or her personal information and shall be given access to that information. An individual shall be able to challenge the accuracy and completeness of the information and have it amended as appropriate.

4.9.5
When an individual successfully demonstrates the inaccuracy or incompleteness of personal information, the organization shall amend the information as required. Depending upon the nature of the information challenged, amendment involves the correction, deletion or addition of information. Where appropriate, the amended information shall be transmitted to third parties having access to the information in question.

7.(3) For the purpose of clause 4.3 of Schedule 1, and despite the note that accompanies that clause, an organization may disclose personal information without the knowledge or consent of the individual only if

(b) for the purpose of collecting a debt owed by the individual to the organization.

monty,

not all collection agents are the same here. isn't that kind of closed minded to think that all collectors are the same?!?

I am a collector who abides by the law and most people i work with do. you get the odd one or two that go overboard but those few can't be lumped into "all collectors". i've worked with people in debt and helped them get their debts paid and i didn't need to be rude, aggressive or nasty to get it done. not all collectors are made of the same mold.

angella, you're absolutely right. once and once only. when a person asks us to stop calling, it is law to stop calling.

Interesting, I found this on
http://www.privcom.gc.ca/information/social/index_e.asp

http://www.privcom.gc.ca/fs-fi/02_05_d_35_sn_e.asp

What does a friend of a friend of a friend need to know about you?: Privacy on social networks.
Social networking sites have become increasingly popular among Canadian Internet users. According to a poll by TNS Canadian Facts, a Canadian marketing and social research firm, online teens and young adults are the heaviest users of social networking sites, with 83% of 13-17 year olds and 74% of 18-29 year olds having visited at least one such site. Six in 10 people in their 30s have visited at least one social networking site and 45% of those in their 40s have done so.

This is a little similar to our discussion.

angella,

agreed...
I will report back when I hear from the Privacy Commissions office.
http://www.privcom.gc.ca