As I stated early on - the details really don't matter AT THIS POINT- non of the details change the fact that there is a judgment against me - that I now have the opportunity to negotiate - was just asking if I can deal directly with CRS or do I have to go thru the small claims process.

RE the loans for incorporated company - I had to personally guarantee any business loans or credit card accounts for the business - most financial institutions require this now- and because I was a director of the incorporation - according to trustees - I was personally liable for loans and debt in the business name.

As it turns out...at the end of the day it really doesn,t matter whether it was a Business Loan that was defaulted on, or as in this case a series of credit card payments, the result is the same a Judgement was awarded.

The only difference is had it been a loan as we were lead to believe to an incorporated company, they would not be collecting personally from the owner.

I fully understand what occurred...my point was that when this was intially presented it was A book keeper supplying info for her boss in order to get a Business loan that the owner then said she had never signed for.
Even yourself explained to her that she must have her facts wrong....you believeing it was an actual loan and not a in store credit card. I maintain they are not the same thing

I understand what the book Keeper did and why but that does not negate the fact that she did it on her own accord and without the owners prior knowledge.

Again this is not what one would consider a business loan... in its true definition.

@TJ.brooks

After reviewing the many posts, I have finally put this jig-saw puzzle together. As you previously said, you shouldn't have to be a Forensic Accountant in order to understand a member's problem. Becuse it was not properly explained, outlined and detailed it has caused much confusion. It is an unusual situation and most people would not be able to understand what had actually happened. And so, I am going to explain exactly what happened not only for your benefit but for the benefit of our members.

Our member "freedom" owned an incorporated company. Located within her store was a terminal that was used to process "in-store credit cards". These "in-store credit cards" were financed by Citi Financial, a subsidiary of CitiCorp, a large U.S. bank. A customer could make a purchase in the store by using the "Citi Financial in-store credit card" and the funds would be deposited directly into "freedom's" corporate bank account.

The terminal was also used by a customer who wished to apply for an "in-store credit card" All that would be required is the customer's name, address and some form of identification such as a driver's licence number, OHIP number or their SIN. Once this information was entered into the terminal, the application process begins and within 60 seconds, the terminal would either approve or disapprove the application. If the application was approved, it would print out a form about the size of a cheque stating the approval number, date approved, name of the applicant and the credit limit. This now becomes a TEMPORARY "in-store credit card" If a customer wished to make a purchase that same day in the store, the terminal operator would simply enter into the terminal the information shown on the TEMPORARY "in-store credit card along with the sales price of the merchandise and this would then be charged directly against the TEMPORARY "in-store credit card" and the sale proceeds deposited directly into the corporate bank account. The PERMANENT "in-store credit card " would then arrive in the mail from Citi Financial with 1 - 2 weeks. There would be no need to "activate" this card as you would if you received a Visa or MasterCard in the mail because it was already activated when the customer received a TEMPORARY card in the store.

Now, as you know, with all credit cards including Visa, MasterCard, Amex and "in-store" you can make both purchases on the card and make a cash withdrawal. On some cards, your cash withdrawal amount is a percentage of your credit limit on the card while on other,cards, the cash withdrawal amount is only limited to the available credit remaining on the card.

With a Visa or MasterCard, you can make a cash withdrawal at a bank or at an ATM machine subject, of course, to the total daily limit allowed on the card. However, with an "in-house credit card", you cannot withdraw funds at a bank or at an ATM machine. You must call the issuer of the card and arrange to have funds transferred to a bank account. It matters not whether the bank account is a Savings, Chequing or Business bank account.

What happened in the case of "freedom" is her bookkeeper applied for an "in-house credit card" by supplying "freedom's" name, address and SIN. Within 60 seconds, she was approved and the credit limit was established. With this information, the bookkeeper contacted Citi Financial to arrange for a cash advance equal to the amount of the credit limit established and directed Citi Financial to deposit these funds into the corporate bank account. Loan repayments were made from the corporate bank account on behalf of "freedom" until such time as no further loan paymnts were made. The credit card went into arrears and because "freedom" was incapacitated due to her accident, Citi Financial believed that recovery of any outstanding amount would be NIL. A decision was then made to sell the account to a debt buyer, namely, CRS. CRS purchased this debt, determined that the Limitation period for commencing a legal action had not expired, issued a Statement of Claim to which no defence was filed and obtained a Default Judgment.

If this debt was incurred about 10 years ago as it appears to be from "freedom's" post, then under the old Limitation Act which was in effect up to December 31, 2003, the Limitation period was 6 years. For debts incurred from January 1, 2004, the Limitation period is 2 years.

From an accounting perspective, when the funds were deposited from Citi Financial into the corporate bank account, this would be shown as a Liability on the corporate Balance Sheet as a Shareholder Advance. Any subsequent payments made by the corporation to Citi Financial would be charged against the Shareholder Advance account and would reduce the Liability on the Balance Sheet.

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Educating one Consumer at a time

thank you - that's the answer I was looking for....phew....

thanks for taking the time to reply to my post....

Here is where you said it.

she did act as an agent for me - as per previous posts..

the funds proceeds were directly deposited to my business account and the funds were used strictly for business purposes.. the business made the payments on the loan

It was Not a loan.

In any event as you said there is a Judgement in place and the short answer is yes you can try to directly negotiate.... without court intervention....but do it clearly in writing from both sides.

when did I ever say she was acting as my agent???...those were your words

I had been in a serious car crash - she could not communicate with me, so she got funds into the bank account to cover transactions out of the business account until my return...I did not know what she was doing because I was in hospital and on pretty strong pain killers - she told me what she did upon my return to work. She did not have power of attorney - as I did not expect to be away from the business.

This is an in-store credit card - that Citi Cards refer to as a loan - so call it what you want - but none of the details matter - there is a judgment in place and I want to pay it.....my original post asked something to the effect of - when there is a judgment in place and the judgment owners are looking to settle...can I deal directly with them - or do I have to go thru the small claims court system.....the details don't matter - cause there's a judgment in place.........don't need a forensic accountant - just someone that has experience with judgments and can read a question.

I am sorry for your accident...but how can you with a straight face say she was acting as agent for you when you had no idea she did this untill after the fact. An agent must be assigned by you much like a Power of Attorney.

I can appreciate that your circumstances dictated desperate measures....but it was not you who intially got this ball rolling. It was her on her own accord.

My point was the original post had no truth to it when you say business loan and she was your agent.

When someone writes in to this blog for some help and or suggestions, the other members reasonably expect that the problem being presented is true and accurate. Being given one story then it transforms into something completely different certainly puts your credibility at risk.

Other members should not have to play Forensic Accounts to give you some useful information. Theres an old addage....Garbage in....Garbage out.
There is a world of difference between a Business Loan and a credit card. And someone acting as agent and someone who takes it upon themselves to fraudulently get funds.

I would respectfully submit...in future be honest and accurate otherwise any info you might get will be worthless.

she did act as an agent for me - as per previous posts..

the funds proceeds were directly deposited to my business account and the funds were used strictly for business purposes.. the business made the payments on the loan

so what is it that you're confused about????

this is not why I'm in this mess - I'm in this mess as a result of being hit by a drunk driver and sustaining a spinal cord injury....this drastically affected my income earning ability, and the costs of therapy came before bills...unfortunately insurance doesn't cover it all - you have to pay it out and fight with them to get reimbursed....took 6 years to get reimbursed for medical care....thanks to "no fault" insurance.