It's too bad about the $9,000 Highway 407 bill. I don't know what to say. Mike Harris really sold the people of Ontario down the river by selling off that highway to a group of foreign investors who really don't have to answer to anyone. It's unbelievable that the voters of Ontario tolerated it and still do.

You would think that public's opinion and justified anger would have sufficiently galvanized to create some effective opposition by now; but no, this has not been the case. Donna Cansfield, the Liberal MPP for Etobicoke, and current MTO Minister, seems blissfully unaware (or even uninterested) in the public's plight.

This conclusion was borne out by her recent statement that, generally, everything seems to be running well with the 407 and the public. She doesn't even get that she doesn't get it. If only politicians would give as much thought to the welfare of their constituents as they do to their retirement pension plans.

With regard to your new license plate registration, you don't have to be married or even living common law in Ontario to share vehicle ownership. In fact, several unrelated parties can own the same vehicle. In the case of a single owner, the RIN (or Registrant Identification Number) is the person's driver's licence number. However, if a vehicle is registered to 2 or more people, a RIN is created that is unrelated to any of their individual drivers' licence numbers.

The pitfall is that, if one of them gets in an at-fault accident, then all of parties' insurance records may be adversely affected for the next 6 years. Of course, that would depend on whose names are on the vehicle's insurance policy, which, in turn, may be determined by the policies of the insurer. As well, many people split up and there may be a dispute over who owns the vehicle.

Still, it seems strange that you would have been unaware of a large bill like that hanging around. Licence plate denial got reinstated last Novenber. However, the 407 ETR were having iQor, Inc formerly CBCL - Canadian Bonded Credit Limited - Now Iqor Collection Agency sue everyone who had an outstanding balance of over $500 before they got their licence plate denial privilege back with it's punitive power. If the debt is currently $8937, then six years ago @26.82%, the original amount must have been almost $2150. So I'm surprised the scavengers didn't sue you earlier, as they had your phone number and probably knew where you lived.

The problem resides with the ridiculous reverse ownus provision of Section 17.1 of the 1998 Highway 407 Act, whereby you have to prove you don't owe the money. Any other creditor has to prove that you owe them, but here we have a complete reversal of one of the most fundamental principles of law. How do you prove you didn't do something? I dunno.

Having said that, if you really didn't incur the debt, then I would go down to Queens' Park and speak to the Cansfield and her staff. They are on the 3'rd floor of Ferguson Block, 77 Wellesley Street West. Complaining to the ombudsman, Denise Pelletier would be a waste of time. Strictly window dressing. Same with the Dispute Arbitrator, who gives his address as a small 6 inch mail box in a convenience store at the corner of Mt, Pleasant Rd. and Eglinton Ave., Toronto. How people put up with this nonsense, I'll never know.

Note that if you leave the province, Ontario doesn't have a reciprocity collection agreement with the other provinces concerning 407 toll collections. Because the debt was defaulted on before Jan.1, 2004, the old 6 year limitation period would apply; however, that's about to run out, if it hasn't already. Of course, denial of your licence plate sticker, if you are the individual vehicle owner, will last until October of 2097 - when you will owe them (if the calculator on my computer is working, and the interest rate stays the same), $17,301,682,000,000!!!!

So there, start saving up right now! Just kidding - they won't be able to sue you - but iQor, Inc formerly CBCL - Canadian Bonded Credit Limited - Now Iqor Collection Agency will will be able to legally nag you for the next 90 years OR until death, whichever comes first.

Ray

It is a sickening world when our own government becomes a collection lackey for a private enterprise. What is next...a person owes a credit card debt for prescription drugs and they can't see an OHIP-covered doctor?

Scary.

Raymond, you are so right...the ministry has their hands tied when it comes to plate renewals. I can't imagine how much the counter staff at any vehicles licensing office get harassed over something they can't control. However, I lucked out one sunny afternoon with a government employee who seemed to HATE 407 them same amount that I do when she very helpfully suggested a way to circumnavigate the system.

You see, I went to get a temporary permit for a new vehicle I was purchasing and was informed that I could not obtain any new plates, renew any existing plates, or even get a 10 temporary permit without paying in full my NINE THOUSAND dollar 407 bill.

I nearly blew a gasket. $9000. How does one person rack up a $9000 407 bill? The most I was EVER billed for personally by 407 ETR was for $500 dollars of which I worked out a payment arrangment for and PAID OFF.

Obviously, something is wrong here. So I contact the 407 who informs me that "yes, indeed ma'am you owe 8, 937 dollars and no, we have no proof of the loan. We have no breakdown of the tolls, charges, interest, etc. We even don't have pictures of your six-year old licence plate as we ARCHIVE our info every three years. But yes, you must pay or you don't get plates."

Sweet.

So my VERY helpful gov't employee simply asked if I was married. NO, i'm not, but I do live with my man and have for over five years. Well! That's a common-law spouse and guess what? He owes nothing to 407...so...for $10, we switched the ownership of our current vehicle to include both of our names. Got an entire new RIN created at the ministry and had our new plates within an hour. Also, we purchased our new vehicle under this number and now are happily driving away. Thanks Sheila at the licensing office in Brampton for this tip!

I'm very angry that they are arbitrarily demanding money that they can't prove I actually owe. AND that it's legal that they extort money.

For the nine thousand dollars, I intend to hire a good lawyer to sue 407. I don't even want money FROM them at this point, just an acknowledgement that they have made a mistake and have my plate denial removed from the MTO's computers. I also want the harassing iQor, Inc formerly CBCL - Canadian Bonded Credit Limited - Now Iqor Collection Agency calls to stop.

If it were 200, or $500 or even $1000 dollars, I would pay just to get them OFF my back but $9000????

Bloodsuckers.

Yeah, well, that's what you get when people let their government sell their rights down the river.

I have spent a great deal more time on this than you and I wish I was wrong.

Believe me, there is nothing you can do. Taxpayers have allowed the Ontario Government to sell off their resources to a consortium of foreign investors who are accountable to no one outside of themselves and who will hold the public hostage for the next 90 years.

People don't get the government they ask for, they get the government they deserve.

Once again, read the Highway 407 Act before you respond.

Think, then ink.

Ray

I am waisting my Time, Come on man, you working for them or what, look, anyone in canada Must Be Licenced to Collect on behalf of a 3rd party, no where does it say that there are corporations imune to that, that is why the Minister of Transportation will not issue you an invoice prior to paying the amount they are asking at the licence bureau. by doing so would show that they are collecting on behalf of a 3rd party, that is why they will just tell you Hier say and you pay them then they give you a receipt. Tell me what does the Cynthia Bruce have to do with Collection on behalf of a 3rd party, like so many are doing in this country, ask them are you licend, do you have an insurance, in case of dispute and mistake so you can sue for damages, and if they say yes, ask them for the policy number. They are collecting look it up. I have documents that was sent to me from I beleive consumer affaires, and it lists the companies in canada that are licenced to collect on behalf of a 3rd party. And there are not that many licencees out there. I will dig it out

So now the MTO have hijacked my vehicle plates and holding it for ransome, my right to travel, Come on world wake up

Remember this is a Collection issu or I should say a demand to pay and outstanding invoice, which falls right under the Bills Of Exchange Act.

I can absolutely tell you that you are completely wasting your time thinking along this line.

The MTO is FORCED to deny plates to unpaid toll users via provincial legislation.ie., the Highway 407 Act. Didn't you read either the Act or my doleful remarks to Cynthia Bruce?

Ray

Can someone look into this matter, 407 is preventing us from renuing our vehicle plates at the department of transportation, I have ask the department of transportation to issu an invoice before paying out the 407 and they will not, I have called and talked with the Ministery of Licencing of Ontario due to the fact that when one is collecting on behalf of a 3rd party one must be licenced to Collect which then falls under the Collection agency procedure, every corporation no matter who it ism must be Licensed to collect on behalf of a 3rd party, the ministry of transportation is collecting money for a 3rd party which is the 407 privatly owned corporation and according to the Licence Minister the department of transportation are not licenced and they are not a collection agency. Please anyone that can say otherwise come forward Thanks

Can someone look into this matter, 407 is preventing us from renuing our vehicle plates at the department of transportation, I have ask the department of transportation to issu an invoice before paying out the 407 and they will not, I have called and talked with the Ministery of Licencing of Ontario due to the fact that when one is collecting on behalf of a 3rd party one must be licenced to Collect which then falls under the Collection agency procedure, every corporation no matter who it ism must be Licensed to collect on behalf of a 3rd party, the ministry of transportation is collecting money for a 3rd party which is the 407 privatly owned corporation and according to the Licence Minister the department of transportation are not licenced and they are not a collection agency. Please anyone that can say otherwise come forward Thanks

Nothing like the good ol' fashioned Trudeau salute! Will keep abreast of any developments...should they occur.

As I view your post, I am also reading a letter sent to me from the 407 ETR this morning. It's a warm personal message from 407 president and ceo, Antonio de Santiago. Even has his smiling picture on it too, thanking all the gringos (suckers) for their patronage.

The people of Spain will appreciate your $1000 plus accumulated interest (at 27%), plus account fees, transponder fees, collection fees, late collection fees and sundry other surcharges far too lengthy to mention.

But, just in case you thought it was a merciless world, the 407 ETR has what's called "the hardship fund" (a copy of which I include below). You may be "lucky" enough to qualify for it if you satisfy all of the 47 conditions listed (one of which includes signing your car over to them as a chattel, if they figure it's worth enough). It's called called "the hardship fund" for a good reason - it adds to the hardships you already have.

Once again, the people of Spain salute (with their middle finger) and thank the people of Canada for their patronage.

Ray

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Payment Plan

407 ETR offers a payment plan to assist customers that have accumulated significant outstanding tolls and fees and who would suffer ?exceptional hardship? through the denial of their vehicle licence plate.

The payment plan will permit a customer to pay an outstanding amount over a period of time, rather than all at once.

Qualification for the plan is at the sole discretion of 407 ETR. All decisions are final, binding and not subject to appeal.

To be eligible, you must meet certain criteria, including:

Owing more than $1,000

Having no alternative vehicle

Proving that your loss would be immediate, significant and lasting

In addition, a customer must show either of the following:

That denial of the licence plate would be a threat to the health and safety of a person ordinarily transported by the vehicle; or

That you would suffer ?exceptional hardship? if your plate were to be denied

The payment plan is not available to customers for whom the following apply:

Alternative transportation is available, including public transportation

Arrangements can be made to do without the vehicle that is subject to plate denial

Renting or finding a replacement vehicle is possible

The outstanding amount is less than $1,000

The customer has qualified for the plan before and has failed to honour their commitments

If 407 ETR decides that you are eligible for the payment plan, conditions may apply, such as:

Interest on amounts in arrears will continue to accumulate

The customer must agree not to incur additional 407 ETR charges

The customer may be required to grant 407 ETR various rights in the customer's assets, such as the customer's vehicle.

If you think you meet the criteria outlined above, you could be eligible for 407 ETR?s payment plan. Please click here to download an application form and fill it out.

Effective July 1, 2006, 407 ETR will be charging a $30.00 (plus GST) Payment Plan Application Processing Fee. Those customers that are accepted for the payment plan will have $30.00 credited towards their 407 ETR account.

Completed applications can be mailed or hand-delivered to:

407 ETR Payment Plan
6300 Steeles Avenue West
Woodbridge, ON
L4H 1J1

Applications will be reviewed by 407 ETR staff and the final decision about the application will be made by 407 ETR?s Ombudsman.

Customers will be contacted by 407 ETR staff after a final decision on their application has been made.

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I guess then that great minds think alike! I was unaware that you were also using this same analogy.

I'd like to thank you for taking the time to answer my questions - you saved me a lot of legwork that would likely have taken me past my renewal to figure out and resolve. I guess I'm going to have to bite the bullet and make a payment arrangement with them (although I'm not above begging prettily for a reduction in the interest charges - just in case they agree) so I can keep going to work to earn money to pay them with. What a bloody vicious little circle that is! I must agree with your suggestion of speaking out, and plan on doing just that. I truly dislike (not nearly a strong enough word!) feeling like I've just been screwed over! It's not like I could have used that $1 000 for a million other things, or even to put aside for my daughter's education...it's great to know that the government has got its priorities straight - let's play collection agency for a foreign company, instead of stepping in and protecting our citizens, and encouraging the use of Canadian funds within Canada. God forbid we should promote the Canadian economy! What could I possibly be thinking!