I am waisting my Time, Come on man, you working for them or what, look, anyone in canada Must Be Licenced to Collect on behalf of a 3rd party, no where does it say that there are corporations imune to that, that is why the Minister of Transportation will not issue you an invoice prior to paying the amount they are asking at the licence bureau. by doing so would show that they are collecting on behalf of a 3rd party, that is why they will just tell you Hier say and you pay them then they give you a receipt. Tell me what does the Cynthia Bruce have to do with Collection on behalf of a 3rd party, like so many are doing in this country, ask them are you licend, do you have an insurance, in case of dispute and mistake so you can sue for damages, and if they say yes, ask them for the policy number. They are collecting look it up. I have documents that was sent to me from I beleive consumer affaires, and it lists the companies in canada that are licenced to collect on behalf of a 3rd party. And there are not that many licencees out there. I will dig it out

So now the MTO have hijacked my vehicle plates and holding it for ransome, my right to travel, Come on world wake up

Remember this is a Collection issu or I should say a demand to pay and outstanding invoice, which falls right under the Bills Of Exchange Act.

I can absolutely tell you that you are completely wasting your time thinking along this line.

The MTO is FORCED to deny plates to unpaid toll users via provincial legislation.ie., the Highway 407 Act. Didn't you read either the Act or my doleful remarks to Cynthia Bruce?

Ray

Can someone look into this matter, 407 is preventing us from renuing our vehicle plates at the department of transportation, I have ask the department of transportation to issu an invoice before paying out the 407 and they will not, I have called and talked with the Ministery of Licencing of Ontario due to the fact that when one is collecting on behalf of a 3rd party one must be licenced to Collect which then falls under the Collection agency procedure, every corporation no matter who it ism must be Licensed to collect on behalf of a 3rd party, the ministry of transportation is collecting money for a 3rd party which is the 407 privatly owned corporation and according to the Licence Minister the department of transportation are not licenced and they are not a collection agency. Please anyone that can say otherwise come forward Thanks

Can someone look into this matter, 407 is preventing us from renuing our vehicle plates at the department of transportation, I have ask the department of transportation to issu an invoice before paying out the 407 and they will not, I have called and talked with the Ministery of Licencing of Ontario due to the fact that when one is collecting on behalf of a 3rd party one must be licenced to Collect which then falls under the Collection agency procedure, every corporation no matter who it ism must be Licensed to collect on behalf of a 3rd party, the ministry of transportation is collecting money for a 3rd party which is the 407 privatly owned corporation and according to the Licence Minister the department of transportation are not licenced and they are not a collection agency. Please anyone that can say otherwise come forward Thanks

Nothing like the good ol' fashioned Trudeau salute! Will keep abreast of any developments...should they occur.

As I view your post, I am also reading a letter sent to me from the 407 ETR this morning. It's a warm personal message from 407 president and ceo, Antonio de Santiago. Even has his smiling picture on it too, thanking all the gringos (suckers) for their patronage.

The people of Spain will appreciate your $1000 plus accumulated interest (at 27%), plus account fees, transponder fees, collection fees, late collection fees and sundry other surcharges far too lengthy to mention.

But, just in case you thought it was a merciless world, the 407 ETR has what's called "the hardship fund" (a copy of which I include below). You may be "lucky" enough to qualify for it if you satisfy all of the 47 conditions listed (one of which includes signing your car over to them as a chattel, if they figure it's worth enough). It's called called "the hardship fund" for a good reason - it adds to the hardships you already have.

Once again, the people of Spain salute (with their middle finger) and thank the people of Canada for their patronage.

Ray

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Payment Plan

407 ETR offers a payment plan to assist customers that have accumulated significant outstanding tolls and fees and who would suffer ?exceptional hardship? through the denial of their vehicle licence plate.

The payment plan will permit a customer to pay an outstanding amount over a period of time, rather than all at once.

Qualification for the plan is at the sole discretion of 407 ETR. All decisions are final, binding and not subject to appeal.

To be eligible, you must meet certain criteria, including:

Owing more than $1,000

Having no alternative vehicle

Proving that your loss would be immediate, significant and lasting

In addition, a customer must show either of the following:

That denial of the licence plate would be a threat to the health and safety of a person ordinarily transported by the vehicle; or

That you would suffer ?exceptional hardship? if your plate were to be denied

The payment plan is not available to customers for whom the following apply:

Alternative transportation is available, including public transportation

Arrangements can be made to do without the vehicle that is subject to plate denial

Renting or finding a replacement vehicle is possible

The outstanding amount is less than $1,000

The customer has qualified for the plan before and has failed to honour their commitments

If 407 ETR decides that you are eligible for the payment plan, conditions may apply, such as:

Interest on amounts in arrears will continue to accumulate

The customer must agree not to incur additional 407 ETR charges

The customer may be required to grant 407 ETR various rights in the customer's assets, such as the customer's vehicle.

If you think you meet the criteria outlined above, you could be eligible for 407 ETR?s payment plan. Please click here to download an application form and fill it out.

Effective July 1, 2006, 407 ETR will be charging a $30.00 (plus GST) Payment Plan Application Processing Fee. Those customers that are accepted for the payment plan will have $30.00 credited towards their 407 ETR account.

Completed applications can be mailed or hand-delivered to:

407 ETR Payment Plan
6300 Steeles Avenue West
Woodbridge, ON
L4H 1J1

Applications will be reviewed by 407 ETR staff and the final decision about the application will be made by 407 ETR?s Ombudsman.

Customers will be contacted by 407 ETR staff after a final decision on their application has been made.

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I guess then that great minds think alike! I was unaware that you were also using this same analogy.

I'd like to thank you for taking the time to answer my questions - you saved me a lot of legwork that would likely have taken me past my renewal to figure out and resolve. I guess I'm going to have to bite the bullet and make a payment arrangement with them (although I'm not above begging prettily for a reduction in the interest charges - just in case they agree) so I can keep going to work to earn money to pay them with. What a bloody vicious little circle that is! I must agree with your suggestion of speaking out, and plan on doing just that. I truly dislike (not nearly a strong enough word!) feeling like I've just been screwed over! It's not like I could have used that $1 000 for a million other things, or even to put aside for my daughter's education...it's great to know that the government has got its priorities straight - let's play collection agency for a foreign company, instead of stepping in and protecting our citizens, and encouraging the use of Canadian funds within Canada. God forbid we should promote the Canadian economy! What could I possibly be thinking!

Re: Section 22 of the Highway 407 Act

Getting back to you, I checked with the MTO this morning to confirm what I posted last night. Yes, unfortunately all the vehicles in your name will be barred from renewing their sticker, not just the one with the delinquent toll.

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ASIDE:

Appropriate, the pan monniker you suffixed to the 407 ETR name. Coincidently, it's the same analogy that I've been using all along.

In the world of nature, you'll see a small pack of wolves chasing down a heard of a 2000 caribou up north somewhere. I always wondered why it is that the poor caribou, while they're on their desperate run, never stop to think to themselves, "Hey, there's 2000 of us and only 8 of those little suckers - why are WE the ones running?" If they could do that, then they would turn around and start chasing the wolves. Well, of course, animals aren't capable of rational discursive thought, only instinct implanted and ordained to the cycle of nature.

But we humans are. So how is it that 6 million GTA residents allow ourselves, against all principle of social order and reason, to be subjected to and chased down by a consortium of foreign billionaires who hold one of our most vital assets hostage so they can gouge and gore us without accountability for 99 years?

Especially, when according to the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, we have paid for the highway 20 times over with our gas taxes. And now we, our children, our children's children and our children's children's chidren will continue to pay untiil the year 2097. But hey, Mike Harris told us we got a good deal and to be grateful.

This is a complete reversal of the principle of societal order in that the common good is being sacraficed to the private interests of a greedy few, That means, at some level, the order of society must be breaking down. The only answer as the business editor, Linda Leatherdale of the Toronto Sun, earlier suggested, is the galvanization of public opinion in society to force an expropriation with due compensation. Property rights assigned through contract law are not absolutely sacrosant. When they conflict with the greater need of society as a whole to have a viable transportation infrastructure, they must be subordinated to that greater need.

Ray

That's a good question which I haven't encountered before but I'm pretty sure the answer is that all your vehicles would be screwed when it comes time to renew any of their stickers. The reason is that refusal is made under Section 22 of the Highway 407 Act of 1998, a copy of which I include below.

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Failure to pay toll ? non-validation of vehicle permit

22. (1) If a toll, and the related fees and interest, are not paid within 90 days of the day a person receives a notice of failure to pay under section 16, the owner may notify the Registrar of Motor Vehicles of the failure to pay. 1998, c. 28, s. 22 (1).

Method of giving notice

(2) Any notice to the Registrar of Motor Vehicles under this section may be given in writing, by direct electronic transmission or by any other prescribed method. 1998, c. 28, s. 22 (2).

Notification

(3) The owner shall promptly inform the person who received notice of failure to pay under section 16 that notice has been given to the Registrar of Motor Vehicles under subsection (1). 1998, c. 28, s. 22 (3).

Registrar?s action

(4) If the Registrar of Motor Vehicles receives notice under subsection (1), he or she shall, at the next opportunity, refuse to validate the vehicle permit issued to the person who received the notice of failure to pay under section 16 and refuse to issue a vehicle permit to that person. 1998, c. 28, s. 22 (4).

Same, if dispute

(5) The Registrar of Motor Vehicles may act under subsection (4) even though the person who received the notice of failure to pay under section 16 has disputed his or her obligation to pay under section 17 or has appealed a decision of the owner under section 19. 1998, c. 28, s. 22 (5).

When toll is paid

(6) If notice has been given to the Registrar of Motor Vehicles under subsection (1) and the toll and related fees and interest are subsequently paid, the owner shall immediately notify the Registrar of the payment. 1998, c. 28, s. 22 (6).

Same

(7) If the Registrar of Motor Vehicles is notified by the owner that the toll, fees and interest have been paid or is notified by the dispute arbitrator that the person is not responsible for paying the toll, fees and interest, the Registrar shall,

(a) validate any vehicle permit that he or she refused to validate under subsection (4);

(b) issue a vehicle permit to a person if it was refused under subsection (4). 1998, c. 28, s. 22

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Notice in particular the wording of Section 22(4), especially the last clause where it says "and refuse to issue a vehicle permit to that person." which seems to apply to any vehicle that you may own, not just the one that tolls are due on. Fuddle Duddle!

I will check tomorrow but I'm probably right unfortunately.

Just think, all this because of a 2-1 judges' decision. One person controlling the fate of 6 million GTA residents. Talk about the tail wagging the dog.

Thank you for the information Raymond. While definitely not what I wanted to hear, it certainly answers my questions on recourse - or complete lack thereof.

Maybe you can answer this, however - if I have another car, with different plates, can they deny my plate renewal on this other license plate?

Thanks again!