His dad is going to go through all his bank statements and find where it shows he paid CitiFinancial, so we'll have that at least. Though you're still probably right. Even with that we'll pretty much be pulling teeth. I'll try and talk to the lender, see if they'll forget about requiring it to be paid if we prove that we're disputing it. Cross my fingers for that.

Whether they get $14,500 or $7200 off the mortgage, you're very unlikely to ever see a penny of it again.

As for suing them, the logistical and jurisdictional difficulties would be so time consuming, even in Small Claims Court, that you would probably choose to kiss the money goodbye first. All the more so, since you've lost all the documentation for the loan and are dependant on the creditor for it. They're fully aware of this; it's what the vultures do every day. As for complaining to Brian Pitkin or the Office of Superintendent of Financial Institutions, that's only likely to generate form letter responses.

Yeah, we learned the hard way not even to trust others with reciepts. His dad had it, and wanted to keep it because it was his payment. Fair enough. Unfortunately when he lost it in the move, it's now our problem to deal with...

Well, to tell you the truth, formal disputes with credit bureaus are a bit of a challenge. I've seen people visit them in person and show the staff SIGNED by the creditor manager, original copies of account statements, only to have them ignored.

The only thing the bureaus seem to recognize is when the reporting institution or or its collection agency calls them to make a change. Consumer Protection in Ontario under Brian Pitkin (the Registrar) likely isn't any better in Alberta. Because CRS is in Ontario, it's their compliance officer and ombudsman you need to bug for a copy of their file on you.

But first, you should try to get their ombudsman to phone the credit bureaus and correct the reporting error. Same thing with CitiBank. If they are willing to do that then you need to go no further. If they won't or say they can't, you need to demand their file on you from their compliance officer which they are required to have.

Under PIPEDA they both have 30 days to reply. Unfortunately, as you've seen, a lot of these compliance officers are jokes. The ones at Total Credit Recovery, Global, and Pomer & Boccia etc will stonewall you, and so a lot of effort may be required to get retrieve the info. Same with the ombudsman at many banks.

In turn, you might have to complain to PIPEDA in Ottawa. Eventually, you will get it. The bad news it isn't going to be by Friday - or next Friday. That's one of the reasons I'm blogging on here: to get consumers to realize much of this privacy and consumer protection legislation exists only on paper; it's not enforced.

How much better if people, realizing what collection agencies are truly like, save their receipts and other documentation for 7 to10 years.

An ounce of prevention is often worth a ton of cure.

If we don't pay them by Friday and they get the 14,500 off the mortgage, after we find the proof and go to sue them, is there anything else we can get them for? I'm feeling pretty vindictive now.

Oh, sorry.. didn't see your last post. The limitation period applicable is where the cause of action (the loan) arose. In this case, the Manitoba limitation period of 2 years applies - a moot point because it's the same in Alberta and Ontario.

So, no, they can't sue you and the limitation period can't be revived due to any subsequent payments or written acknowledgments for this kind of debt. The credit bureaus allow you to attach a formal dispute to your credit file pending resolution of the outcome. It varies between 100 and 200 words according to the province and reporting bureau and allows potential creditors to see your side of the story. In practice though, it's questionable how useful these are.

So our best bet is to try and get the info from CitiFinancial and barring that, start a formal dispute and hope we can still get the mortgage? Because there is no way we can come up with $7200 by Friday.

Yes, I know it's 10 years for auditing purposes, but I was just showing that they must still have your bank records (whether federally or provincially incorporated) since the delinquency occurred in 2006.

The problem is you don't appear to have a copy of the settlement anymore. It was very important to retain that. ARO was after a guy for $30K and his account statement was the only thing which saved him from getting sued and otherwise having to declare bankruptcy. The fact that a lump sum payment for $6K to CitiBank was made doubtlessly indicates it was for such a settlement; otherwise, such a payment wouldn't have been made.

If you genuinely have no records, you'll have to demand the internal records CitiBank AND CRS both have on you. They have 30 days under PIPEDA to comply through their compliance officer. I'm sure both will try to stonewall because it will indicate that a full settlement was made, for how much and when.

They don't want you to see that. They preferred to sit back knowing the account would be listed as a bad debt on your 2 bureau reports for 6 years from the date of first delinquency (NOT the settlement date). This might be until 2012. Sooner or later, they know people will apply for a mortgage, a job or a car loan. That's when the blackmail opportunity materializes. In this case, Friday's the deadline! There obviously is no deadline but the vultures don't want to miss out on a $7200.00 bonanza.

Also, the debt was incurred in Manitoba, the collection agency is in Ontario, and we live in Alberta. Which province's law does this fall under? Because from what I've read about Ontario and Alberta's laws, they can't sue after 2 years. So...where does that place us? Also, for anyone who might know, if we start a formal dispute, can the mortgage company still withold a mortgage knowing that the action in question is being legally disputed?

I was told it was 10 years for auditing purposes. It was CitiFinacial that told us themselves that they get rid of all the inactive files every couple of years, and apparently files that were sold to collections fall under "inactive" files.

Our biggest problem is the fact that they have us over a barrel and know it. If we want to fight, then we don't get the mortgage, because it's going to take longer than three weeks to fight. And they know that if we do get the mortgage, they get their money, and pretty much however much they want. It's so frustrating!