MJR seriously needs to be closed down. I've had an issue that I've disputed and asked them to prove a debt they said I owed to a card company. Here is where they made a major mistake. They sent one of their fake 7a small claims suits in the mail saying they would put a lien on my home if a judgement. The idiots put my mothers home on the papers! How does a "lawyer" Joel Miskin who claims to be a professional, not know that info??? Well, I showed my mother the paper and to say she's upset is being polite. Her neighbour is a lawyer and is planning a surpise for MJR, Joe Recinos, and that IDIOT Joel Miskin. Just in case they come here I will not give details on whats going to happen. Happy Hollidays MJR!! LOL!!

Thanks for the very thorough advise. I feel a little better after understanding how things work.

Once again, I apologize for the earlier misunderstanding.

No, you can't sue the collection agency as a plaintiff because they haven't caused you any injury. If they harass you in a manner that violates the Collections Act, you could, but that's a separate matter.

The creditor assigned the debt to MJR for a certain period, probably 3 to 6 months. Later on, without notification to you, the creditor may rotate it to several other collection agencies for similar periods. Or they might sell the debt at any time to a debt buyer, who then will become the creditor and, consequently, not be governed by the rules of the Collection Agency Act.

However, practically speaking, your major concern should be to avoid getting sued

OR

if you do get sued, not to stress out over it. The things to worry about are

(1) getting sued, not defending the action, and having a default judgment placed against you. You really, really want to avoid that, especially since it'll go on your credit bureau files for 7 years from award date.

(2) Even if one isn't sued, the related matter of having the bad debt along with accrued interest owing on your credit file with Equifax and TransUnion for 6 years from the date of original default. That date will remain invariant irrespective of any future payments.

(3) Another consequence is that every collection agency or debt buyer who deals with the account will hit your credit file with BOTH hard and soft inquiries, which, in turn, may show up (on TransUnion reports), for more than 6 years. [NB: The inquiries are supposed to be soft but the credit bureaus turn a blind eye to what their high paying collection agency members do.] Also, you may be hit with more hard inquiries than average because the creditor knows you own a house, and the fact they know you have assets acts adds an incentive for them to try and recover the money.

(4) Another critical point is that every time you make a payment toward this debt, it will renew the 2 year limitation period - IF it hasn't already passed. If it's already passed, there's nothing that can be done to revive it, notwithstanding certain categories of student loans. Even if you can't pay now, but the creditor thinks that you might be in a better position to be sued at some future time, they may send you some sort of financial information form to fill out. I'm not referring to the Form 20's the creditor might send you through the Small Claims Court after a judgment. Instead, I mean the ones the collection agency sends out to trick you into renewing the limitation period and disclosing where your assets are so they can more readily be seized if they do sue. Never fill these out because they provide written acknowledgement of the debt. Verbal phone recordings are meaningless as far as renewing limitation periods. The acknowledgement must be in writing and signed.

(5) Having said all this, the fact that they sent you a phoney Form 7A, instead of a real one, surely indicates they're scaring you. If you owed $35,000 as opposed to $3500, then they might sue and obtain a property writ. The problem for MJR is that by the time the limitation period is up in March or April of 2012, with interest, the debt will still be under $5K and you still won't have any really liquid assets they can attach.

Still, there's always a possibilty that a creditor could sue, obtain a judgment and issue a renewable 6 year property lien. They could enforce it many years hence when sufficient interest on the loan had accrued to make a seizure and sale worthwhile. Some collection agencies and lawyers do this so you need to be aware of that eventuality. Once a judgment is rendered, you may forget about them but they never forget about you. The buzzards are truly merciless. (That's why I find it annoying that this website is so kind to collection lawyers and agents.)

(6) What stategy would I employ if I were in your position?

If you can settle the debt for 50% or less within 2 years, do so.

Since you own a 2000 Jetta with 400K on it, probably any spare money you have will be be eaten up in repair bills. If so, and you can't afford to pay anything, then it might be best to wait until April of 2012. If you reach that point without getting sued - and you most likely will despite their bluffing - then you are in position to negotiate whatever terms you want. Legally, their options have expired if you've made no payments or haven't provided a signed acknowledgement of the debt.

(7) The main thing is not to fret about getting sued. DO fret about them getting a defult judgment because you didn't defend the claim. Heck, in Ontario, there's a mandatory pretrial settlment conference. In the worst case scenario, if that too failed, it went to trial, and you explained to the judge your difficult circumstances, you'd almost surely get very low monthly repayment terms which you could service out of your GST refunds. Also, maybe no interest while not in default of the payment order.

(8) No, there is generally no way the creditor will deal with you directly, during a period they've contract the debt collection out to an agency.

Ok, now I'm concerned. I don't want them to wait till the debt gets higher to sue me. The last payment I made was in March of this year.

Here's a wild and crazy question to you experts: Can I file as a Plaintiff against the collection agencies, and force them to deal with me? Or is that equivalent to committing suicide? I really do want to pay it off, but at a reasonable rate and pace.

I have a VW Jetta 2000 with 400,000km on it, and hardly worth anything at this point.

Mea Culpa. Sorrry, I was doing several jobs at once last night and obviously misread the part of your post about employment when I skimmed over it.

Real estate is seldom seized by a Sheriff's enforcement writ (lien) for the satisfaction of a Small Claims Couirt judgment because the deposit, administrative and selling costs are so large. To collect on judgments, they prefer to seize bank accounts, harass and enbarass people at work, garnish wages, and seize vehicles (that are $5650+ in value)

But the fact you have a house and an outstanding debt that's accumulating a high rate of interest makes you a bit of a sitting duck just in case they decide to take you to Court. Trying to predict when someone will get sued is not always possible. $3500.00 + interest probably meets the threshold for some companies, but not others like the major banks. They've done a personal and real property search under your name and realize that you still don't have a job. For this kind of money, they would prefer the person had a job or a late model vehicle to seize. Move your bank account to a different bank, not just a diiferent branch, if you ever do get a judgment against you.

In any event, if it's not a secured loan, then the limitation period for suing will be up in 2 years from the default date. And, by now, several months must have passed if they've got Miskin after you. As mentioned, the fact they sent you an illegal "draft" Form 7A, almost always implies they have no intention of ever sending you a real one (which will have the red Court embossed seal and a Court file number (SC######).

Joseph is more or less right about Pitkin's office. But Pitkin values his job above all else and will make the appropriate changes if enough people complain.

With respect to the Law Society: true, they don't take this transgression very seriously, unlike those involving lawyers' clients. But the same principle applies; if enough complaints are received, they will bow to public image pressure.

What a joke;Brian Pitkin and the Law Society of Upper Canada.

I am not credit counsellor, nor was I ever. I just had obtained the services of one to deal with my debt load.

Thanks for the advice :) Much appreciated.

Yes it is a scare tactic, and an illegal one at that. By sending you a fake Form 7A, MJR was really telling you they have no intention of suing you. Therefore you should feel a bit relieved. If they actually were going to launch an action, they'd just go ahead and send you a real Statement of Claim.

Send a copy of the phoney Form 7A to Brian Pitkin as a complaint against MJR and a complaint to the Law Society of Upper Canada against Miskin re one of their members contravening provincial legislation. Don't expect much to come of either, but do it anyway.

As for rest of the threats: having been a credit counsellor yourself, you should already be aware that's not how the legal system works in Ontario.

I did initially panic big time when I got the letter with the form and listing of my house. Basically, they have asked me to settle with them for the full amount ($3,500), or they will put a lien on my house and/or force me to identify my current employer in front of a judge, to garnish my wages. They are also threatening to charge me 25.99% interest from August 14, 2010 to when the debt is finally settled. The letter is from Mr. Joel Miskin LLB of course :)

I was working with Credit Counselling of Canada to reduce my debt, but was unable to keep up with my payment agreement with them, when I lost my job last year.

At this time, I had sent them a letter, stating that I have received their letter, the form 7A and the print of the MLS listing. I let them know that I have prepared a Form 9A (Defense's claim with Small Claims). I have asked that once they have filed their claim to please send a copy with the seal of Court on the document (the one they sent didn't have the seal or a case number).

My question is this a scare tactic? I don't believe they have my mortgage company details, nor my employer's details. I would like to get myself out of debt, but not my putting myself in more trouble. Nor am I going to deal with the bullying tactics used by the collection agencies. Can they place a lien on my house without going to court? I don't think so, but would like some advise.