General Discussion - Stephen Harper granted prorogation - Opinions? - Canada

a good place to talk about links

RE: Stephen Harper granted prorogation - Opinions?

Postby montyloree » Fri Dec 05, 2008 08:29:09 AM

Dzirit01
welcome to the discussion
It's a pretty heated one from what I can see on the internet
montyloree
Moderator
Posts: 3772
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 10:52:47 AM
Province: SK


RE: Stephen Harper granted prorogation - Opinions?

Postby vampchick21 » Fri Dec 05, 2008 07:13:59 AM

Even though I am a Liberal voter, being that the party's political ideology most closely matches my own (I'm slightly left of centre), I am perfecly happy with the choice made by Mme. Jean. Really, given the entire situation, and the clear fact that many Canadians simply do not understand how our system works, it was the best and only choice she could have made, an election is not feasible right now (Adrienne Clarkson noted in her book that she felt it wrong and unfair to Canadians to have less than 6 months between elections), and by all apperances many Canadians simply do not grasp the option of asking the opposition to form a government, coalition or not.

To me, she is in essence, telling Harper to drop the hardline stance and meet the others halfway, and telling the others to do the same.

Just remember that your vote actually only sends your local representative to Ottawa as an MP, just like mine and everyone elses, no matter what factors have gone into your choice. It is the Governor General who then appoints the Head of Government and asks them to form a Cabinet. And she would have been fully within her rights as GG to utilize her powers to dismiss Harper and appoint Dion as Head of Government and request that he form a Cabinet.

vampchick21
Member
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 06:02:52 PM
Province: ON


RE: Stephen Harper granted prorogation - Opinions?

Postby Dzirit01 » Thu Dec 04, 2008 08:52:43 PM

Sorry, brief time lurker here who just HAD to create an account to comment on this; I've been discussing this with family and coworkers and I have to wonder what the fallout will be for ALL of the parties involved. I have voted NDP for most of my life (well, since my early 20's) and the thought of my vote putting Dion in power is unsettling to say the least. The very idea that the man who lead his party to losing the most seats in parliament getting the top job anyway... disgusts me. Not because he's a Liberal or any ideological reasons, but because of the situation; this whole thing reminds me of that Dr. Phil Biggest Loser challenge my wife was following; lose the most to become the winner.
Also I must admit pity for Michelle Jean (sp?). I'd hate to be the Governor General right about now.
Dzirit01
Member
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 08:42:18 PM
Province:


RE: Stephen Harper granted prorogation - Opinions?

Postby montyloree » Thu Dec 04, 2008 07:46:30 PM

I'm surprised..
I thought we were angry with collection agencies etc.

As I've been looking at different Canadian blogs regarding the prorogation issue, Canadian bloggers are really upset.

I haven't seen too many issues that are getting this much heat on the net.

Stephen Harper needs to take heed to these angry Canadians.
montyloree
Moderator
Posts: 3772
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 10:52:47 AM
Province: SK


RE: Stephen Harper granted prorogation - Opinions?

Postby vampchick21 » Thu Dec 04, 2008 05:10:25 PM

What's next? Parliment reconvines on Jan 26 and the budget is tabled on the 27th. We'll see what happens then based on the actions of the players over the next 53 days. Clearly Harper has as much an interest in actually doing what he says he'll do (and said prior to this he'll do, but didn't) by meeting them halfway. They should do the same. That's the only thing that will keep us from going to the polls again, and is what actually keeps a minority government alive.

Harper is as much to blame in this as the other players. Accept that. His style simply leads to that. Hell, if I were in the Opposition I'd be doing the exact same thing they have. If I were Conservative, I'd have crossed the floor sooner rather than later than function under his style.

vampchick21
Member
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 06:02:52 PM
Province: ON


RE: Stephen Harper granted prorogation - Opinions?

Postby Vitzbitz » Thu Dec 04, 2008 04:53:37 PM

Now, I don't think it can be argued that Harper has rubbed the Liberals faces in a great many things since assuming office. I'll even admit that I've enjoyed it, particularly after the early empty rhetoric of Dion, and it did a little to clear the remaining bitter taste in my mouth from years and years of Liberal government.

Whether it had gone too far is academic, clearly the opposition parties thought so and this should have been anticipated by Conservative strategists as the next step.

For all that here we are. Our elected officials bickering like...well, bickering like Canadian MPs and our government shut down for the rest of the year.

So what's next?
Vitzbitz
Member
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:56:59 AM
Province:


RE: Stephen Harper granted prorogation - Opinions?

Postby vampchick21 » Thu Dec 04, 2008 04:43:34 PM

Actually, they merely called his bluff. Don't forget that Harper has attached a confidence motion to a large portion of the votes during his tenure. In essence telling the others to vote with him or oust him.

And when he actually faced being defeated on a confidence vote, when he realized that yes, indeed the majority of the house had lost confidence, he pushed it back a week and then started the fearmongering before finally spending 2 hours with the GG in order to get a proroge.

What the Liberal and NDP were doing was showing that there was an alternative that at the current time held the confidence of the majority of the house and that we did not have to face an election or suspension of Parliment. The was no threat to unseat, since Harper and his Cabinet would still hold their seats, just not their fancy titles, which would then go to Dion/Layton if the GG agreed to the coalition.

in short, just a change as to who held the titles.
vampchick21
Member
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 06:02:52 PM
Province: ON


RE: Stephen Harper granted prorogation - Opinions?

Postby Vitzbitz » Thu Dec 04, 2008 04:36:13 PM

Vampchick I agree, it's perfectly legal and there is precedent. In defence of all the parties they are ALL acting within the rules.

I don't like it one bit, but that doesn't make it incorrect, merely unpalatable.

As for the rhetoric flying around? Both camps are making their actions out to be heroic, and the other sides to be seditious. The bottom line is that the coalition threatened to unseat a government elected six weeks ago. Predictably the government prorogued, and is then immediately criticized for it by those that forced it.

It'd be funny if it wasn't my tax dollars being spent on these schenanigans.

Legal? Yes, all of it. Useful? Not so very much.

And as for the Liberals with their solutions. I've sat here for too long watching their "solutions" to have much faith in their coalition.

Vitzbitz
Member
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:56:59 AM
Province:


RE: Stephen Harper granted prorogation - Opinions?

Postby vampchick21 » Thu Dec 04, 2008 04:31:12 PM

Based on the many comments I've seen around the net the last week or so, apparently not a lot of Canadians did either. Which to me is sad and what was truely fustrating to me. We MUST know how our own system works and functions. We're taught it in school for the love of the gods! Otherwise we are ignorant of our one, true civic duty and it's impact and we are vunerable to negative political rhetoric.

Just as we must understand how credit and finance work in Canada, we MUST understand how our own government works and functions.
vampchick21
Member
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 06:02:52 PM
Province: ON


RE: Stephen Harper granted prorogation - Opinions?

Postby montyloree » Thu Dec 04, 2008 04:28:18 PM

Interesting article vampchick.

These are all things I did not know as of the last few days.
montyloree
Moderator
Posts: 3772
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 10:52:47 AM
Province: SK


,

Return to General Discussion - Discussion Area