Thank you for all of your wonderful information.

I normally get my Equifax in the spring and my TransUnion in the fall and PM/AK popped up in July but from what I hear I am sure they are on there as well.

Curiously, you never mentioned if the item was on your Equifax report. In any event, both credit bureaus have reporting policies that are largely similar but not identical. Irregardless, they have to follow the boundaries of the consumer reporting acts of the province, state or territory they operate in.

Here is a summary of those policies taken from the Financial Consumer Agency of Canada's website. See the chart on page 8 of the 19 page document

http://www.fcac-acfc.gc.ca/eng/publications/CreditReportScore/PDF/CreditReportScore_e.pdf

As well, you can see what the maximum reporting periods are under the Ontario Consumer Reporting Act in Section 9(3)(f) below

(You'll also notice that TransUnion's policy differs somewhat from the Act as does Equifax's with the latter using the "date of last activity" on the trade line account section.)

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Section 9.3

A consumer reporting agency shall not include in a consumer report,

(a) any credit information based on evidence that is not the best evidence reasonably available;

(b) any unfavourable personal information unless it has made reasonable efforts to corroborate the evidence on which the personal information is based, and the lack of corroboration is noted with and accompanies the information;

(c) information as to judgments after seven years after the judgment was given, unless the creditor or the creditor’s agent confirms that it remains unpaid in whole or in part, and such confirmation appears in the file;

(d) information as to any judgment against the consumer unless mention is made of the name and, where available, the address of the judgment creditor or the creditor’s agent as given at the date of entry of the judgment and the amount;

(e) information as to the bankruptcy of the consumer after seven years from the date of the discharge except where the consumer has been bankrupt more than once;

(f) information regarding any debt or collection if,

(i) more than seven years have elapsed since the date of last payment on the debt or collection, or

(ii) where no payment has been made, more than seven years have elapsed since the date on which the default in payment or the matter giving rise to the collection occurred,

unless the creditor or the creditor’s agent confirms that the debt or collection is not barred by statute and the confirmation appears in the file;...........

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Under Equifax, the original date of default on the credit card or original tradeline will disappear 6 years after the "date of last payment" no matter what the original creditor does with it afterward. If you view your Equifax report, you will notice a term "last payment or transaction" which, on this account, was August/04.

You might ask, "What does that mean?" Well, unfortunately Equifax uses the terms "credit transaction" & "transaction" ambiguously. That's partially because in the US, different states have different laws etc. In some cases, it's expedient or convenient for Equifax to use the dates as the debt's write off date or the last reporting date or even the date of last payment. If you look at any Canadian Equifax credit report with several R9 accounts, you will see "date of last activity" being used in some or all of those ways.

That's doubtlessly, why bureaus have adopted the 6 year negative reporting period instead of the provincially mandated 7 year limit. It allows a one year discrepancy for them to be within the limit. After all, any debt will be written off by a creditor within 6 months and reported as R9 to the bureaus by then.

And so to respond to your questions.

With respect to your TransUnion credit report, the debt should only be on both the "trade" section and "collections" sections until circa August, 2010, whether you pay it or not. Read the response from Trans Unions Legal Dept. If it's not, give their ombudsman, Lorie Roberts a call at 1-866 764-7688 ext 2536. She will help you. She's pretty good about correcting erroneous information and so I don't think you'll have a problem. If it was TCR, Natale Law Offices or Pomer and Boccia, that might be whole different ball game, requiring a much longer route.

Theoretically, they may call you about it for 40 years, but I wouldn't worry about that. It's not going to happen - and besides, there's always the "Raymond Jackson Method". (You could probably also call it the Dana White Method, but let's not get into that.)

Only hard inquiries from the last 90 days affect your credit score. (I think that's right- I've got it written in another post but I can't find it right now.)

If it's on your Equifax report, then it will stay on their "trade" section as I said up until circa August, 2010. Equifax calls their collections section, "Public Records and Other Information." It will report the collection by Activ Kapital from the date they acquired it, say Oct./08. The collection account will probably have a 7 digit reference number attached to it, the same one you'll find on the TransUnion report. AND a "Date of Last Payment" which should be Aug/2004 which should trigger an automatic expunge by Aug/2010.

If you don't settle, the account should be off there by August 2010 also. If you do settle, Equifax has a 3 year reporting period following the orderly payment of debt. So if you pay tomorrow, the debt should be removed by November, 2011.

Ray

So what you are basically saying is if I did make a deal with them and paid an amount so the account was paid, instead of having to wait < 2 years for this to be removed from my credit reports, I would most likely have to wait 6 years from the date I paid the account.

So I guess you are saying there is no way to negotiate the removal then without all the disputes, etc.

If this is not paid then that basically means they could call in 40 years bugging me for payment and doing hard inquiries on my credit report?

Am I basically looking at 6 years of this on my credit report or a potential life time of calls?

No, negative items are only allowed to appear for 6 years from the date of original default with the first creditor as per TransUnion policy. Each item that appears on the "collections" section of your credit file has a reference number that matches it with the original item on the "trade" section where it came from. For example, if AK buys up a credit card from TD in 2008 that went into default originally in 2004, it's only supposed to stay on your file for another 2 years.

If you look on the credit bureau reports, you will see the same item posted in 2 separate places. The original item will be in the "trade" section for the dates during which it was with TD, and it will also be reported in the "Collections" section from the time that AK bought it. The reference number exists there so the credit bureau can automatically expunge it after 6 years.

That's the way that it's supposed to work in theory; howvever, the reality is often quite different. It could be difficult getting the item off the "collections" section of your Transunion report for the next 6 years if you decided to pay it off tomorrow. Even if you send a dispute notice to the credit bureaus, they generally only pay perfunctory notice.

Instead, they go by what the collection agency or debt buyer reports to them because that's who pays their bills. The credit bureaus are there to serve the creditors, not you. People complaining and disputing items represents a nuisance and unwanted cost of doing business. I mentioned this to the liason officer of a major bank the other day and she didn't disagree. Unless you can get the collection agency or creditor to amend an incorrect entry, it can be arduous to get it corrected unless you actually walk into the credit bureau and show them hard copy recepits.

In particular, the term "Date of Last Activity" is probably the most important term on a credit bureau report. Suspiciously, nowhere on written credit reports or on either the Equifax or TransUnion websites is it defined. This can hardly be accidental, as both bureaus know quite well how widely this term is misused by collection agencies and debt buyers to blackmail and high pressure people into paying debts they would otherwise ignore.

Ask 6 employees at TransUnion or Equifax what the "date of last activity" means and I guarantee you'll get 6 different answers. For the correct answer, you'll have to contact the legal department of each bureau.

For example, here is how the Legal Department at TransUnion defines the "Date of Last Activity"

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In the Trade Section the Last Activity date reflects the last time there was activity on that account such as a payment or a charge. The date an account first went delinquent is a separate record within each Trade account.

In the Collection section, the reported field is the date the collection was assigned to the agency. Once again, the date the account first went delinquent is a separate record for each collection account and does not change in relation to updating the account. Collection accounts will automatically be removed from your file six (6) years after the date the account first went delinquent with the original creditor.

Regarding TransUnion’s retention of Trade accounts, please note that TransUnion removes such accounts automatically from your file six years after the date the debtor first defaulted on the account. Paying off the account would not change the original default date therefore the account would not stay on file longer if the debtor paid off the amount owed several months after originally defaulting on the account. Where a delinquent account is also reported to TransUnion by a collection agency, the collection agency is also required to report the date the account first went delinquent with the original creditor.

TransUnion

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The problem, as everyone knows, is with the last sentence. Collection agencies and debt buyers widely ignore this requirement unless you make quite a fuss. If this should happen, contacting their ombudsman is usually the first sensible step to take.

Ray

"AK/PMS, generally, isn't too agressive on the telephone collection of stats barred debts, preferring to exert pressure, instead via placing hard inquiries and collection section entires on both credit bureau reports."

I have noticed one hard inquiry and a collection section entry on my TransUnion credit report. Does the collection entry come off after the six years, can they continue to do the hard inquiries forever as well in Ontario?

On a TransUnion credit report what is the quivalent to Equifax "Date of Last Activity"?

Will payment mean that it will now appear on my credit report for another 6 years or is this something I can negoiate with them to remove themselves and the original debtor from my credit report?

Should I have someone look over the agreement they send first? Paralegal or something?

PMS/AK is primarily a debt buyer though some branches do collecting.

In this case, PMS/Aktiv Kapital is only fishing; the debt is stats barred after 2 years if it is an unsecured debt. Offfer them 5 or 10% to settle for moral reasons if you want, but never send money w/o a comprehensive signed agreement first. Debt buyers and collection agencies are famous for sending suckers UNSIGNED official looking agreements. Moreover, AK always asks for 85%. Pay no attnetion.

Under Ontario law, they are allowed to contact you forever for the debt within reasonable limitations, so long as they do not threaten false legal action as Deanna Natale and others seem to do regularly.

AK/PMS, generally, isn't too agressive on the telephone collection of stats barred debts, preferring to exert pressure, instead via placing hard inquiries and collection section entires on both credit bureau reports.

Ray

When speaking to Portfolio Management they informed they had bought an old credit card debt which I do not remember and that they are a debt acquisition firm and not a collection agency. I am guessing that they are just trying to make it sound better and they really are a collection agency? Do they have to follow the same rules as a collection agency or is it different because they bought the debt and are not just trying to collect it for someone else?

This debt is over 4 years old (Aug. 2004), is there really anything that can be done at this point? Going to court, etc.?

Also I live in Ontario.