Thanks again Ray, I read and re-read that link about what acknowledges a debt and I believe you are correct, it seems to be that it needs to be in writing.

I think I am going to let Jonny write to the various agencies and check into the status, amounts, judgements, etc... connected to my debts. Yes, it costs me some money, but he is dealing with these things day in and day out. I'm trusting that he will know how to contact and enquire without putting me in danger of acknowledging the debt again by accident.

I will continue to read here and the many other places you have linked to. I'll also continue to update my progress here and enjoy the advice, links and stories you have contributed.

I hope your exam went well!

"....if you hang up you're going to be recorded as refusing to pay". Like duh - that means that if you stay on the line you will be agreeing to pay.

You've got to realize that deep down all collection agents are inept mental cases. Collections of any kind represents the bottom of the barrel in the world of finance and so it doesn't exactly attract the "sharpest tools in the shed."

I should qualify that statement by saying that because of the disappearing middle class and the polarization of incomes, as is painfully obvious, we are looming toward, if not already in, a personal debt crisis. Thus debt buying and the like has become big business. Big money is lined up to cash in. And that means that it has attracted some top talent to the upper rungs, like the ceo's at iQor, Inc formerly CBCL - Canadian Bonded Credit Limited - Now Iqor Collection Agency and ActiveKapital (formerly PMS). Such people may not have previously considered this field when they were doing their MBA's, but now, because of the money to be made, they seem to have recast their mammon goals.

Having said that, the average collection agent or lackey working for a collections lawyer is little more than an unstable, unprincipled pathological liar, many of who may end up in collections themselves. I was being neither vitriolic nor facetious when I told the collector, Milo Bloom, a previous blogger on the forum, even if he was scraping up dead animals off the highway, he'd be doing something more useful with his life.
(I used that example because collection agencies like knawing on dead carcasses.) I haven't heard from him since but I doubt he acted on my advice.

And so that call you got was typical "collector speak." They're like seagulls fighting over an apple core or banana peel in a fast food parking lot. You were right in hanging up. You never talk to a collection agent, only at them. Until people realize that, they only aggravating themselves unnecessarily.

I believe the acknowledgements the Act is mentioning in reviving a stats barred debt refers to things in writing like signed response letters refuting payment or financial questionaire forms collectors are always sending out. I'm not certain about letters requesting status information on your file. One thing is for sure; whoever you're dealing with at the other end of the line will try to trap you into sending something that will revive or renew it.

I'm not familiar with all the settlement minutiae, so I don't want to speak over my head, but Johnny, or his blogs should be able to help you.

With regard to them hounding your parents, I'm definitely not in over my head. That's an easy one. Get them to be proactive and apply the "optingout" script referred to many time previously.

Ray

"http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc/cs/S-23/bo-ga:s_18//en#anchorbo-ga:s_18

I don't know what part, if any, of the federal portion of your student loan is stats barred, but, irregardless, you have to be careful. As you can see, the various parts of Section 19 of the Canada Student Loan Act legislate how a student loan can be revived even AFTER it has passed its limitation period. This is unlike the case with unsecured consumer debt.

In particular, note how a limitation period can be revived after expiry even by a simple refusal to pay. A refutation can be taken as an acknowledgment!. Go figure. The Government has the authority to make up its own rules. And with any level of government, because of all the reciprocity treaties floating around, theres no place to run and no place to hide any more. (Except, maybe Iraq - but who wants to live there?)"

Holy crap! Does that have to be in writing? When the agressive collector from Global called me here in the UK, it was late at night, so I asked him for a number that I could call him back on. He wouldn't give me one, he kept just yelling at me "You're going to keep avoiding this? You're going to hide?" etc, etc... and so I just kept asking him for a number to call him back. Eventually I just said, look you have 10 seconds to give me a number or I'm hanging up. He kept screaming at me about hiding, avoiding, etc.. so I counted down and he threatened to harass my mother with calls, and I'm sure he said something like "if you hang up you're going to be recorded as refusing to pay". At this point I was still sort of counting down and just saying "un-huh" to everything he was blurting out. At zero I hung up.

I never said I wouldn't pay... but would something like that count? Sheesh.

"http://www.canadastudentdebt.ca/forum_topics.asp?FID=44

The second link is a forum run by a guy, I think out in Nova Scotia. I haven't read any of the posts in a couple of years and I'm not recommending that you use his services or anything; however, by reading some of the posts on this and similar blogs, you can compare your experience with what is happening to others in a similar situation. No point in reinventing the wheel as they say.

Ray"

Thanks for the link Ray, I'll check it out.

I've contacted John Leblanc and I think I will have him look into things for me. This is starting to really worry me. I can't believe how freaking ridiculous some of the legislation is and how underhanded the agencies can be. :-(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAY7rrirfb0

Enough of all this money talk.

Fedor, a lttle rusty, but still the toughest guy in the world, is finally engaging in a meaningful fight, next Saturday, July 19. Tim Sylvia will be the 6th guy he's taking on who is, or at least has been, a UFC champ. I hope he does better than the previous 5, but of course, I know he won't.

Ray

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc/cs/S-23/bo-ga:s_18//en#anchorbo-ga:s_18

I don't know what part, if any, of the federal portion of your student loan is stats barred, but, irregardless, you have to be careful. As you can see, the various parts of Section 19 of the Canada Student Loan Act legislate how a student loan can be revived even AFTER it has passed its limitation period. This is unlike the case with unsecured consumer debt.

In particular, note how a limitation period can be revived after expiry even by a simple refusal to pay. A refutation can be taken as an acknowledgment!. Go figure. The Government has the authority to make up its own rules. And with any level of government, because of all the reciprocity treaties floating around, theres no place to run and no place to hide any more. (Except, maybe Iraq - but who wants to live there?)

http://www.canadastudentdebt.ca/forum_topics.asp?FID=44

The second link is a forum run by a guy, I think out in Nova Scotia. I haven't read any of the posts in a couple of years and I'm not recommending that you use his services or anything; however, by reading some of the posts on this and similar blogs, you can compare your experience with what is happening to others in a similar situation. No point in reinventing the wheel as they say.

Ray

Interesting, you really are a font of information Raymond!

Check those guys? I'd never even heard of them! I don't know my loan account number, so I can't just register, but I will contact them and see if I can get that number so that I can register.

I don't know if Global has bought the debt, it's true. The lady at CIBC just said it had 'gone' to Global ... in the same way she said the guaranteed part had 'gone' back to the government.

https://nslsc.canlearn.ca/eng/default.aspx

Did you check these guys? Just because Global is collecting the debt doesn't mean they bought it.

Ray

Thanks for your advice Raymond. I have followed at least some of it and called CIBC today.

I found that my loans are split into 3 parts;

2 Federal parts, one 'guaranteed' part that has been sent back to the government to collect and one part 'risk-shared' that has been sent to Global Credit for collection.

1 Ontario part, that is also 'guaranteed' and has been sent back to the government for collection.

I am fairly sure that the Fed loans are stats barred. So I believe that means that Global have probably bought the debt for pennies on the dollar and are hoping to get me to either acknowledge the debt again, or just pay up.

I'm worried about the Ontario part though, since it cannot be stats barred ever. How can I check if the government is actively chasing this debt? Do they ever write off these debts? How can I check out what amount this debt is? CIBC couldn't tell me.

Once again, thanks for your efforts Raymond.

Tomorrow I have a day off work, so I'm going to call CIBC and OSAP and see what I can find. I'm hoping that I can at least find out how my loan is split amongst Federal, Provincial and interest parts. If I can also find out the various actions taken against my loans as well as who has the loans now, that will be a nice bonus.

I'll keep this thread updated with whatever info I can get.

To: Slimster

http://www.lawguru.com/cgi/bbs/message.php?i=564951721&view=a

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/source/statutes/english/2001/elaws_src_s01006_e.htm

I was trying to remember the post I made a long time ago on the Ontario Government's proposal to sell off student loans to private debt buyers but I was busy with exams. Anyhow, here is a copy of the Harmonization Act I was referring to. In particular, see Section 8.1. [Oh well, I guess if they can sell off our highways, they can sell off the student loans.]

Heck, Mike Harris was also talking about selling off tracts of land up North to the Japanese when he was in power. Imagine the poor people in Timmins going to bed one night and then waking up the next morning and seeing all the road signs in Japanese.

The other link is about a person from Ontario asking about his defaulted student loan, now that he's living in Germany. The lawyer mentions that even Germany has reciprocal judgment enforcement agreements with Canada. That's why I was urging you not to ignore it. Believe me: Out of sight is NOT always out of mind. collection agencys always have you in mind when they are looking for a fresh carcass.

< Notice also that court actions DO NOT always take place where the loan was taken out. That's very important when one is doing action searches or paying a firm to do it for you.>

Of course, if they sell a non stats barred student loan to a private buyer, probably, any applicable unlimited limitation period remains attached to it as part of the bundle of rights. People Like Deanna Natale will have a field day.

Ray